From: jhmau (jhmau@sbcglobal.net)
Date: Fri Nov 01 2002 - 17:58:12 GMT
Hi Sam, Platt and All,
I seem to be following you around. I guess we have the same impulses. After the thread on Moral Judgements of 24 Oct. I decided to try put together an overview of how I see MoQ.
All comments welcome!
This is an overfsimplified overview of the elements key to the M0Q, a description of how we know things based on some writings of Robert Persig, and being a member of moq_discuss. What I know of the moral orders depends upon this description. "How" limits "What!"
IMO Persig shows me that by instinct I experience indefinable quality. He uses teaching rhetoric as an example of teaching quality. Sometimes I communicate the experience artistically. Other times I can not communicate the dynamic at all, "I just don't have the words for it." The experience of the dynamic is certain, "I experienced that, I can act on it." Or the experience of the dynamic is not certain, "What happened? I don't know what to do."
Using an argument drawn from evolution, I say that I am changed by dynamic quality. I act differently. There is a process to the change. There is a result of the change. I become different. Do I remember the change? If I do remember--the memory of static quality (later) and the memory of dynamic quality indicates that I have a two layered memory. If I do not remember experiencing the dynamic--I have many parts, I don't know what they all are. Something has changed and I am unaware of it. I like the way I am. I want to forget sometimes. I change until I die.
An argument: I call the memory of change instinctive memory. From instinctive memory I remember the 'how' and the 'what' of the new me. The memory can stay with me my whole life, or I can forget it as intense as it is. I don't want to remember. I forget a lot of my daily activities. I can dig in my memories to sort them out. I forget the instinctive memory, or I reverse the change. Sometimes I do not do what I wish, but do what I do not wish! Know thyself!
The process of change is not the complete dynamic experience. I am able to talk about the new me if I leave out the process. I create a new word, or use an old one with a minute change in meaning.
IMO Poetry, music, art, etc. as well as breakthrough scientific descriptions and experiments are communication from instinctive memory. For example an artist makes something beautiful. The beauty is not some static quality of the artist. In fact society has been harsh to the artist. In some way the object incorporates the dynamic process that happened to the artist and is left in instinctive memory. I remember the process from dynamic things that have happened to me. I respond to the way the artist creates a description of the dynamic process. I learn, I remember, I respond to the ugly or beautiful through resonance with the process in instinctive memory. As a bass choral amateur singer I can attest to the care and development needed to make the process as clean and precise as possible. Do, Re, Mi_Fa, Sol, La, Ti_Do. I do not think beauty is a different order.
I use a word to express the change. I static-latch the experience to define the word, preserve the experience, talk about it. The word is definable static quality. Sometimes I make a mistake, because I cannot capture the whole dynamic experience. I do not remember that the one changes the other, that the dynamic process is reciprocal. For example my body absorbs the kinetic energy of the bullet. The student changes the teacher. Experiencing the moral orders, and describing them to another are different. I have different points of view, dynamic and static quality. When I am describing the moral orders with defined words to another, my assurance that I am right is a mutual trust, which is OK for government work.
In my next post on this subject I will try to desribe my view of the dynamic process evolving the inorganic to the organic to the social to the intellectual orders.
Joe
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