From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Wed Oct 27 2004 - 20:40:22 BST
Hi again,
I think you'll find that the definition of "empiricism" is something
like the view that experience, especially (but not exclusively) of
the senses, is the only source of knowledge. So, yes, I agree that
"empirical experience" is redundant. Furthermore, experience need
not be measurable: after all, we experience love, friendship, and
Quality, no?
Best,
Mark (sh)
On 27 Oct 2004 at 11:02, Erin wrote:
Does sayingexperience seem less to you than saying empirical
experience-- i am trying to figure out why that empirical has to be
added, especially since it violates the definition.
I experience Quality, and don'tcare ifexperiencing it falls outside
empirical measurements, do you?
Mark Steven Heyman <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
Hi Erin,
On 26 Oct 2004 at 22:49, Erin wrote:
All sounds reasonable but I never thought the empirical label applied
to the resurrection.
msh says:
I know. I used that example in response to the nonsense (presented
elsewhere in this thread) that empiricism requires us to believe in
resurrection because someone says they've experienced it.
erin:
I was trying to understand if it really applied to Quality/values.
Would you do this reasoning step-by-step for empirical evidence for
Quality/values the way you did it for no empirical evidence for the
resurrection.
msh says:
I'll try. When you pick the pair of shoes that don't give you
blisters, you are making your decision based on your experience of
Quality. To use an example offered by Pirsig, when you decide to
hang a painting rather than look at the ba! re wall, your decision is
rooted in your perception that the painting is of higher artistic
quality than the unadorned wall.
Or take a look at the following verses:
Mary had a little lamb,
Little lamb, little lamb,
Mary had a little lamb,
Its fleece was white as snow
And everywhere that Mary went,
Mary went, Mary went,
Everywhere that Mary went
The lamb was sure to go
Indelicate is he who loathes
The aspect of his fleshy clothes,
The flying fabric stitched on bone,
The vesture of the skeleton,
The garment neither fur nor hair,
The cloak of evil and despair,
The veil long violated by
Caresses of the hand and eye.
When you decide the second is better poetry, your decision is based
upon your perception of Quality. I think all of these examples, and
countless others you encounter every day, are your direct experiences
of Quality, so that Quality may be said to be an empirical reality.
N! ow, if you are looking for a Quality Meter that detects quality
the
way a Geiger Counter detects radiation, I'm afraid there is no such
device. However, we don't need a Quality Meter to experience
Quality any more than we need a Geiger Counter to experience
radiation.
Best,
Mark (sh)
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