From: Horse (horse@darkstar.uk.net)
Date: Wed Jan 22 2003 - 23:22:16 GMT
I've tried several times to send this. Perhaps this time.....
Hi Glenn
I'm extremely busy at the moment with some site related tasks but I thought I'd get this
thing out of the way as it's a distraction from the rest of the post.
On 20 Jan 2003 at 0:06, Glenn Bradford wrote:
> Also, he asked you to either remove his essay about emotivism from your
> site or cite him as the author at the top or bottom of it. So far you
> have done neither.
Given that you have the post URL it would have bee quite easy to have seen the other
posts related to this issue in the moq_focus archive. These show the full story of what
happened regarding the emotivism essay. I assume that Struan has forgotten the events
and no longer has the emails that passed between us. Never mind. Anyway...
On 10 Jan 2003 at 20:02, Struan wrote:
> Horse decided to post it to the forum without my permission and without
> giving me credit for it, presumably by cutting and pasting it after I
> passed on a transcription of one of my undergraduate exam answers to a
> news group. I found this doing a 'Google' search for 'Ayer' & 'Emotion'
> and am pretty annoyed to see it there with a credit at the bottom saying
> 'moq.org'. Although I was aware that Horse had used this essay (without
> my permission), I stupidly presumed that he would, at the very least,
> acknowledge its source, either immediately before or immediately after
> the body of work, and I urge him to do so now or remove it from his
> site. Horse has the audacity to accuse Glenn of 'intellectual dishonesty
> of the worst kind', yet here he is stealing my intellectual property.
> Outrageous!
At the end of my post to the MF forum on 4 July 2000:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007/0010.html
there appears the following from me
"As there seems to be an amount of confusion over what is meant by 'Emotivism', I've
also supplied an excellent essay/critique on Emotivism in a seperate post. I can't for the
life of me remember where it came from or who wrote it."
At the time all I had was a printout and a text file of the essay which appeared exactly as
you see it at:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007/att-0011/00-part
On 5 July 2000 a John Bradshaw (apparently one of Struan's students) posted this:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007/0015.html
to let me know that it had originally been produced by Struan. I returned this:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007/0013.html
thanking him for supplying the source of the essay and requested that he ask Struan to
email me off list with information about where it had come from.
On 6 July 2000 Struan emailed me with this:
On 6 Jul 2000 at 12:33, Struan Hellier wrote:
> Hi Horse,
>
> Blimey, that old chestnut again.
>
> I believe (although I am not sure) that I posted the Emotivism essay to the news group
> we both contributed to for a while. Can't remember the exact name - sci.phil.meta?? or
> something.
> Can't remember the date either I'm afraid, but it is definitely one I wrote as an
> undergraduate.
> Have fun,
>
> Struan
to which I replied:
On 9 Jul 2000 at 0:32, Horse wrote:
> Hi Struan
>
> Sorry for the delay. I've been doing some digging about regarding the emotivism
> essay. I spent quite a while trawling various net archives with little success until I
> remembered my own backups of the sci.philosophy.meta conversation. It took me a
> while to find and restore them but when I did tere was you essay sitting there:
>
> Why emotivism is flawed as an ethical theory (Struan Hellier, 17/09/98 20:59)
>
> No wonder I couldn't recall the source - nearly two years ago!
>
> Still, that's that little mystery cleared up. Hope you didn't mind that it was used, even
> though I was initially unable to credit you (I have done since). It's something that pops
> up every now and again as new members emerge. I'm not sure that many of them
> understand Emotivism or even where it came from and your essay is an excellent
> intro. Incidentally, would you mind if I put it on my own site when I get around to re-
> vamping it, then if it comes up again Ican just provide a reference instead of the whole
> essay.
>
> See ya
>
> Horse
>
Struan replied to this with:
On 9 Jul 2000 at 7:20, Struan Hellier wrote:
> Hi Horse,
>
> Just to sound like an international jet-setter, I am off to Prague with the School Jazz
> Band in 15 minutes, so this will be very brief. We have just broken up and, after this
> week, I have two months off. Now that is what I call a holiday!
>
> No problems about using my essay and, of course, there was clearly no intention to
> plagiarise - the mere question of it is ludicrous and I never thought that for one minute.
> Seventeen year olds can jump to conclusions at times. Very nice lad though. He asked
> me about ZMM and I suggested this site to balance my scepticism. :-) Feel free to use
> the essay as you wish and don't forget to send me the URL of your site.
>
> Life is fantastic, although I am knackered. Must go - hope all is well.
>
> Struan
In the meantime, on 6 July I had posted this:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007/0018.html
to the list with the following included at the end:
Horse:
I think that the essay I supplied (now confirmed as Struans - by Struan) is
very useful as a concise critique and explanation of Emotivism. My thanks to
Struan for the essay and his student John Bradshaw for bringing its origin
to my attention.
Here's Struan's quote again:
On 10 Jan 2003 at 20:02, Struan wrote:
> Horse decided to post it to the forum without my permission and without
> giving me credit for it, presumably by cutting and pasting it after I
> passed on a transcription of one of my undergraduate exam answers to a
> news group. I found this doing a 'Google' search for 'Ayer' & 'Emotion'
> and am pretty annoyed to see it there with a credit at the bottom saying
> 'moq.org'. Although I was aware that Horse had used this essay (without
> my permission), I stupidly presumed that he would, at the very least,
> acknowledge its source, either immediately before or immediately after
> the body of work, and I urge him to do so now or remove it from his
> site. Horse has the audacity to accuse Glenn of 'intellectual dishonesty
> of the worst kind', yet here he is stealing my intellectual property.
> Outrageous!
And as you can see from the above I credited Struan at the time and received
permission from Struan to do with the essay as I pleased.
As I had no recollection of it's origin it would have been somewhat difficult to
acknowledge the source either before or after the body of work.
Concerning 'post it to the forum without my permission', I posted it to the forum ensuring
no-one would think it was mine stating quite plainly that I had no recollection of it's origin
and Struan accepted this quite happily, even making a point of mentioning that he
understood no plagiarism was involved on my part.
That also seems to clear up the accusation of 'intellectual dishonesty of the worst kind'
and 'he is stealing my intellectual property' quite reasonably I think.
So there you go. Not so very 'Outrageous' after all!
I think all the URL references I have given are correct but if they're not let me know or
you can go to:
http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_focus/0007
sort by date and it's all there.
I'll get around to the rest of your post just as soon as I have the time.
See ya
Horse
------- End of forwarded message -------
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Wed Jan 22 2003 - 23:18:40 GMT