RE: MD Contradictions

From: Matt Kundert (pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Apr 11 2005 - 19:23:33 BST

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    David,

    David said:
    In fact, I like to imagine that you look like Tucker Carlson, who I see as a
    completely adorable demon from hell.

    Matt:
    See, isn't it great that we still agree on politics?

    Actually, I should respond directly to one point in your post about
    philosophology and creativity.

    David said before:
    OK. The difference between writing about art history and actually creating
    art is more stark and clear than is the difference between philosophy and
    philosophology. But I don't Pirsig's point is destroyed by this. In fact, he
    is pointing out that its very difficult to teach genuine creativity in the
    fine arts as well as in philosophy. I mean, the secondary nature of art
    history, literaty criticism and musicology does not just serve as an
    analogy. These are problems in their own right. And while "doing" philosophy
    is not a physical activity like moving paint brushes or strumming a guitar,
    the point is that some activities are creative and some are not. The fact
    that both philosophers and philosophologist, as well as novelists and
    literary critics, might seem to be doing the very same thing in some sense,
    namely sitting and thinking and writing, does not negate the fact that one
    involves the production of original work and the other does not.

    Matt:
    I agree that it is difficult to teach creativity--in any field. You can't
    teach creativity, really. You just do it or you don't. And I incorporated
    this in my essay when I said that we should take Pirsig to mean that
    philosophy is unprofessionalizable.

    What I want to say is that philosophy is too wide a subject to say that
    these people over here are doing philosophy and these people over here are
    not. There are different traditions in philosophy, and one of them is the
    conversation started by Plato. It's parochial to say that one tradition is
    doing philosophy and the other isn't: which is what people blame much of the
    Western tradition for saying against the Eastern. I don't think you can say
    that, for instance, literary critics aren't original just because they don't
    write novels. That's a mistake because literary critics aren't supposed to
    be writing novels. They have their own dialogue going and originality is
    determined internally to it. Now, you can say that you despise literary
    criticism, but I think it would show you to be a "know-nothing" about these
    other activities to say that "some activities are creative and some are
    not." The first part of my essay obliquely goes towards the point of saying
    that creativity is something that occurs internally to an activity, not
    something that occurs in some activities and not in others.

    And this is the problem with Pirsig's distinction: I think he's trying to
    pin down what philosophy is when everything he is about says he shouldn't be
    pinning it down. I talk about this more in that other post (that I'll break
    into halves in a day or two if it doesn't come through), but I think Pirsig
    conflates two things that should be kept separate: creativity and
    nonhistorical philosophy. When you want to point to who you are talking
    about, you emphasize that they are writing nonhistorically, without regard
    to the historical conversation of philosophy, but when you want to point out
    what they are doing _right_, you emphasize creativity, which basically means
    denying creativity to anyone who pays attention to history. My overall
    point is that I think creativity and any particular act of writing swing
    free of each other. Each kind of writing that can be demarcated from other
    kinds has its own internal dialectic that determines the standards of
    creativity and originality.

    Matt

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