From: ian glendinning (psybertron@gmail.com)
Date: Sat Apr 30 2005 - 17:26:02 BST
Mark, Ant and all ...
Obviously the morals of politics are closely related to any good
philosphy - the last two posts on my blog have been about ethics and
morals at high (boardroom) levels of decsion making - that's not the
reason I shy away from it on a discussion board like this. I'm here
because I want people in positions of power to make better decisions -
full stop.
The reason is that the relationship between any pragmatic philosophy
and any decisons made using it, and the historical outcomes is so
complex and tenuous, that it's intractable in any pragmatic causal
sense. "Debate is useless" as the Vogon guard might say.
What is more productive (IMHO) is to debate how a good philosophy
might be used to affect and support good future policy and decision
making. And to plan how to get it out there into the meme pool for
future generations.
But invoking historical "facts" from the macro-level of outcomes to
support the arguments is less use than a chocolate fireguard, on an
ashtray, on tits on a bull on a motorcycle, (if I may mix my
metaphors). Why because those arguments are ALWAYS tainted (nay
distorted) by the politics of the proponent, in ways that bear no
significant causal relation to the philosophy being discussed. None
whatsoever.
In fact Mark, that's exactly what you current tag line about lions and
hunters says - to me.
Ian
On 4/30/05, Mark Steven Heyman <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
> Hi Ian, Platt, all,
>
> ian:
> Powerful stuff, but despite your warning, does it not have a better
> home than MoQ-Discuss.
>
> msh:
> Maybe. But, after all, LILA is subtitled "An Inquiry Into Morals."
> And politics is nothing more than human activity attempting to
> resolve the moral tension between the MOQ's Social and Intellectual
> levels. So I, for one, see no reason to exclude political
> discussions from MOQ-D, as long as Quality is being served.
>
> platt:
> To suggest a moral equivalency between the U.S. and Nazi Germany is a
> intellectual pattern of such low quality as to be off the scale of
> moronic.
>
> msh:
> I'm pointing out an obvious moral hypocrisy, not a moral
> equivalency, which is a phrase used by people who'd prefer to
> conceal the hypocrisy.
>
> Also, I am NOT suggesting that former Presidents be hanged: the
> state has no right to take anyone's life, IMO. My claim is that many
> German and Japanese political/military leaders were hanged for
> actions no worse than some committed by other governments, including
> the USG.
>
> platt:
> As for Chomsky, his support of the Holocaust denier and anti-Semite
> Robert Faurisson is all you need to know about the quality of
> his historical veracity.
>
> msh:
> Anyone who actually reads NC knows this is nonsense. Anyone who
> reads my original exchanges with Platt, from about a year ago, will
> see that Platt has never read Chomsky, much less taken the time to
> verify Chomsky's references.
>
> Best,
> Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
> --
> InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
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> Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
>
> Until lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always
> glorify the hunters: African Proverb
>
>
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