Re: MD MOQ and The Moral Society

From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Thu Jul 21 2005 - 03:07:23 BST

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    Hi all,

    > platt 7-18-05:
    > Well, I'd say if voluntarism is the issue that it's a lot easier to
    > voluntarily opt out of the gym than a country.
    >
    > msh 7-18-05:
    > This is an odd thing to say, coming from someone who regularly asks
    > people who criticise American policy why they don't move somewhere
    > else.

    platt 7-20-05:
    Unsupported assertion; no evidence whatsoever.

    msh 7-20-05:
    All ya gotta do is ask. Here's just one version of the "love it or
    leave it" or "if you think something's better, go there" form of
    argument:

    "Where, pray tell, are these small scale 'implementations of
    communist theory?' Cuba perhaps? And if they really exist and are so
    wonderful, how come you're not there?"

    http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/14845.html

    > platt:
    > In using "havoc" I was thinking of gulags and ovens, not labor relations.
    > There is a difference wouldn't you say?
    >
    > msh 7-18-05:
    > Not to the people who have been killed by strike-busting thugs
    > (usually cops or private company police), or to children worked to
    > death in sweatshops, or to people who have burned to death in
    > sweatshop fires, such as the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, or in modern
    > day sweatshop fires in Bangladesh, Indonesia, China. In the US,
    > much of this business behavior was curtailed by the Fair Labor
    > Standards Act of 1938, part of The New Deal. However, sweatshops
    > still exist today, even here. See below.

    platt 7-20-05:
    To compare such wrongs to the mass human extinctions of Stalinism, Maoism,
    Nazism and Pol Pot is obscene.

    msh 7-20-05:
    Who's doing that? You're the one who thinks a million dead is
    "worse" than 100,000. I'm saying that when people are killed or
    maimed it doesn't matter to them or their loved ones if none or a
    million others suffered the same fate.

    In terms of value, your remaining comments speak for themselves. So,
    I'll just let them speak.

    Best to all,
    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    --
    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com

    "Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why,
    why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he
    understand." - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle

    > arlo:
    > > But I'm curious, and this is just a rephrasing of what MSH has been
    > > asking, what tax-based services do you feel are in-line with the MOQ, and
    > > which are not? Let me ask specifically about the ones afforementioned:
    > >
    > > Public roads? State parks? Libraries? Public transportation? Museums?
    > > Public legal representation? EMT services?
    > >
    > > Are there any services that are NOT provided by taxes that you feel
    > > should be? Or that should be expanded? (I've suggested more funding for
    > > libraries and museums, for example).
    >
    > platt 7-18-05:
    > I don't see anything in the MOQ that is "in line with" the tax-based
    > services you mention. Perhaps you can refer me to the appropriate quotes?
    >
    > msh 7-18-05:
    > This is non-responsive. Can you find a quote in ZMM or LILA that's
    > "in line with" the idea that tax dollars should continue to be
    > funnelled into the pockets of Halliburton and other fraudulent
    > contractors servicing the war in Iraq?

    platt:
    Unresponsive and evasive.

    > This is just another form of evasion common on The Carousel of Faux
    > Philosophy. An idea does not have to be explicitly stated in the MOQ, and
    > be blessed by Robert Pirsig, to be a valuable idea derived from MOQ
    > principles.

    platt:
    Obvious distortion, no comment required..

    > From what has been said by MOQ-Con-Liverpool attendees, the
    > last thing Pirsig wants us to do is to make him the celebrity center and
    > final arbiter of the Metaphysics of Quality.
     
    platt:
    Better him than you I'd say. :-)

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