From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Tue Mar 11 2003 - 20:53:12 GMT
Hi Platt, DMB, Sam and all,
I (Steve) said:
> It is interesting to me that the two of you both find the moq to be a moral
> road map, but it takes you to different sides of the political debate. I am
> curious to know if the MOQ has caused either or both of you to change your
> position on issues since before you read ZAMM or Lila.
Interestingly, in response all three of you referred to Ayn Rand (see
below). I am currently rereading The Fountainhead, so I've been thinking of
her philosophy lately as well.
Where did she go wrong in her Objectivism in your view or in relation to the
MOQ?
Thanks,
Steve
The Ayn Rand Foundation posts the following very short essay written by Ayn
Rand as an intro to Objectivism: http://www.aynrand.org/objectivism/io.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
DMB said:
> Good question. My political views have changed dramatically. I used to be a
> conservative, went to a conservative college and was an Ayn Rand fan. I
> don't know how much of that change can be attributed to Pirsig, but perhaps
> it is not a co-incidence that my views began to change about the time I
> first read ZAMM. The change in perspective that Lila "caused" in me is more
> specific. It has everything to do with the things I keep harping on, namely
> the distinction between social and intellectual values. I don't think the
> MOQ's moral compass can be used at all without understanding the difference.
> And coming to grips with this has revealed to me a totally different
> understanding of the differences between political ideologies. I wish I had
> access to these idea when I wrote my thesis on Hitler's ideology. I never
> understood what fascism and other reactionary movements were all about until
> I read Lila.
Sam said:
> The big shift is a recent one, occasioned from joining in with this forum.
> In particular, the discussions after 9/11, especially with Rog (the late
> lamented) and with Platt, about the virtues of free enterprise and the US co
> nstitution etc, and also a more detailed engagement with what the social
> level actually is (and how it can be fostered), have shifted me distinctly
> 'rightwards' - although I'm not sure my fundamental values have changed,
> they've just become more conscious. (I read Atlas Shrugged for the first
> time last Christmas, which I found very striking. I even went and listened
> in to a discussion forum on it, but the quality of discussion wasn't a patch
> on what we have here!)
>
> So to answer Steve's question directly, I'm not sure I can point to a
> specific moral perspective that has changed since reading Pirsig's own work;
> but my perspective on free trade and economic questions has, from discussion
> in this forum.
Platt said:
> For the rationale in favor of capitalism, I turn not only to Pirsig but to
> Ayn Rand:
>
> "In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are
> free to cooperate or not, to deal with another or not, as their own
> individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. ... it is the right
>to disagree that is crucial. It is the
> institution of private property that protects and implements the right to
> disagree - and thus keeps the road open to man's most valuable
> attribute: the creative mind" (Ayn Rand, in Capitalism, an Unknown
> Ideal).
>
> To see the MOQ connection, simply substitute "response to DQ" for
> "the creative mind"
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