Re: MD Philosophers and Poets

From: Scott R (jse885@spinn.net)
Date: Sun Jul 20 2003 - 20:46:03 BST

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In reply to: Ian Glendinning: "RE: MD Philosophers and Poets"
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Ian,

While I grant that Adams pokes fun at those who think that science can
explain everything, and that this makes him a kind of postmodernist, he is
mainly poking fun at those who think that human life has some Purpose, hence
the comic value of seeing a few billion years of evolution wiped out because
some galactic committee wants a hyperspatial bypass. In other words, I
disagree with your "ONLY IF".

So what I am seeing is that Adams is a secular postmodernist, and secular
postmodernism arises among those who have accepted a basic materialism and
have taken it almost to its logical conclusion. In "history of intellect"
terms, I see this as being the final stage of SOM. The way forward (in my
opinion) is to drop the materialism, allowing for a spiritual postmodernism,
in which it is just possible that human life does in fact have some Purpose,
but we acknowledge that in our current stage we are pretty clueless about
what it is. (Actually, I think we have a lot of clues, namely what mystics
have to say, but since the word "ineffable" shows up all over the place, we
can't say much about it except in paradoxical terms.) My arguments with Matt
K about Rorty have been pretty much along these lines.

- Scott

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Glendinning" <ian@psybertron.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 5:25 AM
Subject: RE: MD Philosophers and Poets

> Scott said
> [Quote
> they are "the universe is meaningless" types.
> [Unquote]
>
> I'm no expert on Woody Allen, but my positive spin would be to suggest
that
> writers / commentators like these are pointing out that life is indeed
> meaningless, (and poking fun at it),
>
> ** ONLY IF **
>
> you believe science is the answer to everything. Or if you try to couch
> extreme human stories in the language of science (even science-fiction)
what
> you get is ludicrous.
>
> It's been the job of fools and court-jesters to point these things out,
> since, well, since anyone was in a position to say who was an irrational
> fool in the first place - Aristotle perhaps ;-).
>
> Regards,
> Ian
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
> Sent: 19 July 2003 03:14
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD Philosophers and Poets
>
>
> Ian,
>
> > Scott [Quote]
> > His humor is based on taking for granted that the universe is
> fundamentally
> > meaningless.
> > [Unquote]
> >
> > So, given the clue that it was his humour, do you think he actually
> believed
> > that, or was he perhaps being ironic ?
>
> My impression was that he was poking fun at those who tried to find
meaning
> in a meaningless universe, not at those who found the universe
meaningless.
> I mean, who's ox is gored when you are wanting some deep and profound
answer
> to life, the universe and everything, and get the answer '42'?
>
> >
> > (Or perhaps your own levels of humour are just too convoluted for me.)
>
> I find his books hilarious, and I also like Woody Allen and Kurt Vonnegut,
> who seem to me to be coming at the whole mishmosh in the same way, and I
> know
>
> - Scott
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> > [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
> > Sent: 18 July 2003 05:25
> > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> > Subject: Re: MD Philosophers and Poets
> >
> >
> > Ian,
> >
> >
> > > Scott - if DNA was a SOMite then there's no hope for any of us :-)
> >
> > That's my take (about Adams, not there is no hope for any of us :-). His
> > humor is based on taking for granted that the universe is fundamentally
> > meaningless, which is the logical conclusion of the materialist branch
of
> > SOM.
> >
> > - Scott
> >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> > > [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Scott R
> > > Sent: 17 July 2003 21:02
> > > To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> > > Subject: Re: MD Philosophers and Poets
> > >
> > >
> > > Rick,
> > >
> > > However, D.A. was a SOMite, which is to say under the impression that
a
> > > theory is there to answer exactly what the [objective]Universe is for
> and
> > > why it is here. The MOQ, however, has successfully moved beyond this
> into
> > a
> > > more postmodern,...wait...I seem to be
> > > fading........................................
> > >
> > > > I love Douglas Adams. So I just had to throw this one out for
> > > entertainment
> > > > purposes...
> > > >
> > > > "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
> > > > exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will
> > > > instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more
> > > > bizarrely inexplicable.
> > > > There is another theory which states that this has already
happened."
> > > >
> > > > take care
> > > > rick
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Sam Norton" <elizaphanian@tiscali.co.uk>
> > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 4:58 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: MD Philosophers and Poets
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Ian, all,
> > > > >
> > > > > On this topic:
> > > > >
> > > > > Keats: ""I am certain of nothing but of the holiness of the
Heart's
> > > > affections and the truth of the
> > > > > Imagination--what the imagination seizes as Beauty must be
> > > Truth--whether
> > > > it existed before or
> > > > > not...The imagination my be compared to Adam's dream--he awoke and
> > found
> > > > it truth."
> > > > >
> > > > > "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,' - That is all
> > > > > Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. "
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm re-reading Dirk Gently at the moment (which contains the first
> > > > quotation above).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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Next message: Scott R: "Re: MD Intellectual patterns? huh?"
Previous message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Intellectually Nowhere"
In reply to: Ian Glendinning: "RE: MD Philosophers and Poets"
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