From: Nathan Pila (pila@sympatico.ca)
Date: Sun Nov 09 2003 - 01:16:36 GMT
Gert-Jan Peeters,
Hmm, So, if there is no one in the forest, then the tree makes no sound as
it falls, right?
Did you happen to catch the latest NOVA on PBS? It was about the book called
The Elegant Universe. The book discusses 'string theory'. String theory
postulates that all matter and all radiation (photons, heat etc) is composed
of vibrating strings of energy. That, these strings, are the ultimate
reality; the strings vibrate in 11 dimensions. Since we can't imagine 11
dimensions, is it fair to say that only 4 dimensions exist and the strings
are unreal?
Nathan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert-Jan Peeters" <gjpeeters@home.nl>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: MD quality is ...?
>
>
> > Johnny,
> >
> > OK. I think I see most of what you have written.
> >
> > Let me take you to one part where you say, "We expect apples to fall to
> the
> > earth because we have seen apples falling to the earth, and this is why
> > apples fall to the earth."
> >
> > What about the concept of gravity? Where does that fit in with your
> > thoughts? Do apples fall because we have seen them fall before and so
> expect
> > them to fall now, and then they do, or it is that objects attract
> eachother
> > with a gravitational force and this is the root cause of apples
> accelerating
> > to the earth.
> > In other words, if humans and all other beings that have consciousness
> were
> > to disappear, would apples stop falling?
> >
> > Regards to you,
> >
> > Nathan
> >
> > ----- End of Original Message -----
>
> And to make it even more complicated, your question might boil down to 'is
> there a world outside our experience of that world.' So, indeed, if al
that
> experiences stops, that world should be able to continue without it,
because
> it was also build without experiencing beings. If humans and all other
> beings that have consciousness were to dissappear, it would be like
erasing
> the intellectual, social and biological levels. You would still have an
> outside-of-experience world that would continue to exist.(thus the
anorganic
> level) A child asks the same question when it says: "Does my teddybear
exist
> when I'm at school and not thinking about him?" or: "Is the
> refrigirator-light really off?" If experience would be the key-word here
you
> could never check nor prove what the state of the teddybear is. "Mom,
could
> you check if my teddybear is on the bed?" For all we know the teddybear is
> having a chill-out party with barbie. We could just never know. But - to
> make life simpler we assume they don't party. We assume the world is out
> there and we are experiencing it as players in a giant decor. (And that's
> where all the static patterns of value kick in.) But all those
assumptions
> are just to make it all simple, without it, all would be to complicated to
> have surviving chances. It would be like watching your television with
just
> the snowy dots - it wouldn't make anny sense. (And as soon the television
> would show you some patterns you'd get interested. You are experiencing
> quality right that moment!) So, the world as we know it is a temporary
state
> of mind that works to cope with it all. And at some moment in historie we
> had science that kinda dictate how that world worked. Their explination
> worked a lot better than how the medieval church explained the world. But,
> after many decades, also the science started showing some contradictions
> (you can read about those in Antony's mcWatts online artwork). So, the
> temporary state of mind has had its best times, we're of to something
> better. Something that melts these contradictions, but would still be very
> usefull. A lot of people start searching and find it in the most strange
> places. The ammount of wizardy and witches on the television And in
personal
> life has increased. Others have found the MoQ to be very usefull. So, the
> world didn't change, but our explination did. And the best explination
wich
> gives us the least doubts starts with the assumption that experience is
> reality. And without that experience there would be no reality.
>
> Your question: "If humans and all other beings that have consciousness
were
> to disappear, would apples stop falling?" I don't know. But if you would
say
> that apples would still be falling, your saying more than that. And it
takes
> you down again to where you'll end up with all the contradictions. To
avoid
> those contradictions people use the Moq and the MoQ would give another
> explanation: If consciousness has disappeared I can never be sure if
apples
> fall. It falls outside my experience, so it falls outside reality.
> Experience is reality. No experience = no reality. No apples, no gravity,
> no ground to fall on...
>
> But then again - it's a temporary state of mind until someone finds a
better
> explination ..
>
> Gegroet,
>
> GJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
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