From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Thu Nov 13 2003 - 10:35:24 GMT
Hi Matt, Johnny
Matt:
...pragmatists would agree that morality, Quality, and intersubjective
agreement are more or less interchangeable...
Paul:
I think intersubjective agreement has to be classified as static social
patterns of authority and the static intellectual patterns they approve.
Therefore, as Quality (or morality) *creates* static patterns (including
intersubjective agreement), I don't think they are interchangeable. In
addition, to borrow some words from Pirsig - when an American Indian
goes into isolation and fasts in order to achieve a vision, the vision
he seeks is not one of intersubjective agreement.
Matt:
One of the ways I can put my insouciance towards respecting
Morality-as-such is to pick up one of Andy's lines of criticism: that
Johnny is divinizing Morality/Quality. The analogous problem from
theology is the problem of evil. If God is all-powerful, then why does
he allow evil? Well, if everything emanates from Morality, if
everything is Quality, how do we explain the presence of immorality?
Because we don't respect Morality? But everything is Morality, even the
bad stuff. Does that mean we should respect the bad stuff and the good
stuff?
Paul:
Pirsig's redescription of morality in evolutionary terms provides an
explanation for the presence of immorality and good and evil.
"The static patterns that hold one level of organization together are
often the same
patterns that another level of organization must fight to maintain its
own existence.
Morality is not a simple set of rules. It's a very complex struggle of
conflicting patterns of
values. This conflict is the residue of evolution. As new patterns
evolve they come into
conflict with old ones. Each stage of evolution creates in its wake a
wash of problems." [Lila p.188]
"Is society good or is society evil? The question is confused because
the term "society" is common to both these levels, but in one level
society is the higher evolutionary pattern and in the other it is the
lower. Unless you separate these two levels of moral codes you get a
paralyzing confusion as to whether society is moral or immoral. That
paralyzing
confusion is what dominates all thoughts about morality and society
today." [Lila p.352]
Paul
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