From: Valuemetaphysics@aol.com
Date: Fri Nov 21 2003 - 01:09:41 GMT
Mark
I wrote: The cutting edge of reality is changing and dynamic in
nature. Art, truth, morality and quality exist on that cutting edge.
Mark 20-11-03: Truth is always static. They change, even Euclidean
geometry is not truthful in all circumstances.
Mati: Which is it? Always static or truth changes? SOM would like for
truth to be static, MOQ I believe finds it Dynamic. But like art when
you discuss truth in a static sense you really are not talking about
truth. When you do I comes back to bite you. As a former Assistant
Principal in a high school, I had to deal with a number of discipline
issues. Students loved to try to build cases or various half truths or
truths. I learned to listen to them and their truths which in many cases
were to some degree valid. Then I would say, "Ok, assuming everything
you said was true." Then I placed their truths in the context from
which they got in trouble to begin with. I was interesting to watch
them understand that truths have many meanings and the real value in
understanding them in context, the dynamic context of life. But as
Bodvar has pointed out before truth and such are facets of the gem
called quality, which is what it is all about. Pirsig states that DQ
"pervades" all the other realities, which would include intellect. Truth
and Art pervade intellect but it doesn't make sense that Art and Truth
are an intellectual function or value pattern.
Mark 21-11-03: Hello Mati, I have suggested that Truth is a static product of
a Dynamic Artistic Intellectual process. So, all other realities are artistic
creations of the intellect.
Mark 20-11-03: It's not easy to maintain the cutting edge, but Native
American Indians do rather well, and flashes of insight produce evolve
static patterns.
Mati: Agreed that "flashes" of insight as to DQ itself, but not long
sustained periods.
Intellect also can't survive on that edge, it's a static pattern.
Mark 20-11-03: Intellect does not sit idle and still, it moves and
creates. When it creates it is responding to DQ, and when it does not it
is composed of a static repertoire of patterns. I tried to spell this
out in 'The edge of chaos' because i think it's what Pirsig says when
you examine Lila.
Mark 20-11-03
The code of art Pirsig refers to is largely Eastern in flavour and too
confined and restricted by Western notions of Art. That may be why he
did not wish to use it in Lila as your quote indicates, because the
Western conception of art is static. The Eastern conception is living;
the Cook and his knife - the Tao - Quality.
Mati: I forgot about this, the concept in Western Culture refers to
"Craftmanship" which is an art.
Mark: I only really got onto this myself in recent years so please be
patient - when the 'penny drops' you are going to be in for a very
pleasant and satisfying Aaaaaaahhh! moment. :-) You may like to take a
peak at Northrop's 'The meeting of East and West' - a long book, but an
easy read with a few eye openers along the way. And read, 'The master
butcher' at the beginning of 'The edge of chaos' on the MoQ.org?
Mati: Thanks for the reading recommendation it will be sometime before I
will get to them though.
Mark:
Have you ever thought about your favourite film, Lawrence of Arabia in
MoQ terms? It strikes me that there may be some insights lurking in
there!
Mati: I did watch the film in the terms of MOQ. But we have to be
careful about the "Artistic" liberties, and reality of that time.
However some of the social patterns were interesting enough. Insights
for me were getting pretty complicated at one point and decided to just
watch the film. Then there are times to just loose yourself in the film
which is the most dynamic and fun of all. :)
Mati
Mark 21-11-03. I think i know what you mean? You got involved in David Lean's
Dynamic!?!!!!! ;) He is a great director.
All the best,
Mark
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