From: Paul Turner (paulj.turner@ntlworld.com)
Date: Mon Dec 01 2003 - 16:45:32 GMT
Hi Bo
Bo said:
At times I have the impression that we have probed the
MOQ deeper than Pirsig himself ...and that Paul's "problem" is his
will to adjust to all utterings from one who knows no more any longer.
Right now he labours at the "symbol-manipulation" definition to fit - as
he did the "thought-definition"
Paul labours:
It may be "labouring" to "adjust to all utter[ances] from one who knows
no more any longer" to you, but to me, it's an attempt to clarify and
articulate my understanding of a philosopher's ideas while he is still
around and willing to share his thoughts. If Pirsig's writing about the
MOQ is no longer relevant on this forum then it's time for me to leave.
For each level to be discrete it must have boundaries. My attempt to
clarify my definition of intellect is concerned with the
social-intellectual boundary. Intellect, to me, is still "simply
thinking" in that it is not restricted by subject-object metaphysics as
you would have it, it is restricted only by the Dynamic Quality which it
cannot define intellectually. However, once you make that statement, any
fool can come along and say "Doesn't this imply thinking? Doesn't that
imply thinking?" and so we reach the unnecessary and misleading
conclusion that particles are also thinking and have intelligence. As
Pirsig says in his recent letter, we must draw the line somewhere, and
this is where skilled symbol manipulation comes in. I add to the symbol
manipulation definition - the conscious and deliberate activity of
constructing, manipulating or understanding patterns of thought.
So, whilst we can colourfully and anthropomorphically say that David's
dog "figures out" that this behaviour leads to that consequence, it is
when his dog writes David a note asking for a particular brand of
chocolate or helps him with his accounts that I would say his dog is
acting intellectually.
Paul
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