From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Mon May 03 2004 - 16:19:04 BST
Hi DMB,
> dmb had egged:
> ..I don't see the idea at all. ..Just please concentrate on making
> your own
> thoughts clear. (Maybe I can egg you on by saying that you should do
> it just
> to prove to me that you can make your thoughts clear, because I'm very
> skeptical at this point.)
>
> Steve refried:
> You can't egg me on in that way. I don't feel that I need to prove
> anything to you. I don't think that you approach many of these
> discussions with a sincere desire to reach understanding and to seek
> truth. It just sounds like you're itchin' for a fight.
>
> dmb replies:
> I wish you wouldn't see it that way. Its a show stopper. I mean, don't
> you
> think I've engaged with your views and opinions in a direct and
> specific
> way? My egging-on wasn't suppose to send you off in a huff. Quite the
> contrary. I'm practically on my knees begging for clarity. Why should
> this
> offend people so much? I wish someone would be so direct and specific
> with
> my posts. I think that's what its all about. It takes two to tango - at
> least. I really don't get it. If I'd made an assertion repeatedly and
> someone asked me serious questions about it, I'd be thrilled. I'd be
> flattered. Instead, you have replied with insults and refusals.
> Bummer. I
> guess the only sane thing to do around here is to make peace with
> disappointment and frustration.
>
> Steve continued:
> ...When you say that I don't express my thoughts clearly enough, you
> may
> very well be right. (I do the best I can.) However, I suspect that a
> key
> impediment to your understanding is that you read posts looking for
> opportunities to comment rather than to understand or to learn. Most
> of the
> time I feel like you are performing for an audience rather than
> conversing
> with me. I'm glad to learn from you and everyone else in this group
> when I
> can, but I've lost hope that you are a part of this discussion for the
> same
> reason, so I see no reason to entertain your disingenuous invitations
> to
> enlighten you. As far as I can tell, you see enlightening others as
> your
> department.
>
> dmb replies:
> I'm not seeking enlightenment from you.
Of course you aren't. That's my point. It's unthinkable to you that I
could have something teach you.
> I simply want to understand what
> you're saying.
But you don't ask because you want to learn. You just want to debate,
and I think your attitude prevents you from understanding what others
have to say.
As far as I can tell, you've never learned a thing in any of these
discussions and you've never been wrong. (If you could admit that Lila
participates in intellectual patterns you might give me some hope.)
> You've repeatedly scolded me for talking about people and the
> levels in a certain way.
I've never scolded anyone. You have begun using the language
"socially-dominated person" rather than saying that the person is "on
the social level," and I appreciate that.
> I've never understood the reasons for it or what
> you were talking about.
That's because you don't try to understand, but rather you try to
figure out where I went wrong. Your mind is made up before you read
any arguments.
> I would have thought that everyone wants to be
> understood, most especially in a place like this.
Yes, it's quite frustrating.
> And MOST especially
> because you started it! Its you who wants me to stop doing something
> and I
> only want to know what it is I'm supposed to stop. How dare me ask
> what it
> is! Jeez, I'm such a jerk. I hate myself.
>
It would help you understand others if you could get over yourself.
> ...I think its safe to say that you have over-reacted wildly here and
> revealed an anger and resentment that has little to do with my specific
> question.
>
> Fine. Hold a grudge. Let it destroy a perfectly good conversation.
It's ceased to be a good conversation for me. That's why I'm opting
out. I would be happy to try again to explain to you what I mean about
types of patterns versus types of people if I thought you sincerely
wanted to learn.
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