From: Mark Steven Heyman (markheyman@infoproconsulting.com)
Date: Sun May 30 2004 - 19:07:24 BST
Hi Platt,
FWIW to you, I agree completely with your position in this
discussion. Redefining DQ as suggested by DavidM amd Wim may or may
not produce a more powerful metaphysics, but it would be a completely
different metaphysics, not the MOQ we all know and love, IMO.
Best,
Mark Heyman
On 30 May 2004 at 8:57, Platt Holden wrote:
Hi David M:
> You could say that consciousness exists at all levels
> and human consciousness is more complex
> than animal, plant, molecular, atomic, electron
> consciousness. More complex consciouness
> may mean a greater reach, consciously occupying
> a larger world, as we increasingly do. & I am
> suggesting associating consciousness in the above sense
> with DQ.
I agree consciousness extends all the way back to electrons, but I
don't think Pirsig associates consciousness with DQ, at least, I can
find no references to that effect. Instead, he describes DQ as a
creative moral force. So I presume consciousness, or interiority, to
be a static pattern created to enable static forms to more easily
respond to the DQ force. I don't think we can conclude that because
the world has become more complex over time in our limited view that
DQ, which created that complexity, has necessarily itself become more
complex.
> I take your point about mystics and SOM.
> But therefore, what do you think of the intellectual level?
> Pirsig suggests that it is the highest level, you point out its
> association with SOM, is it highest yet flawed?
I agree that the intellectual level is the highest, but the
intellectual pattern that dominates the intellectual level in our
culture, the pattern of subject-object science, is flawed, as Pirsig
explains:
"But having said this, the Metaphysics of Quality goes on to say that
science, the intellectual pattern that bas been appointed to take
over society, has a defect in it. The defect is that subject-object
science has no provision for morals." (Lila, 22)
Of course, that begs the question, "What morals?" The MOQ is all
about the answer to that question, dumping the widely held premise
that all morals are simply social level patterns and instead,
extending morality to the very heart of reality.
Hope this answers your question.
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