From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Wed Jun 09 2004 - 22:04:08 BST
MSH confuses me and himself:
> In developing their versions of "truth", people do indeed emphasize
> some facts and ignore others, as the result of their "history and
> current patterns of values." This does not mean that the facts,
> whether emphasized or ignored, are not true.
Didn't you just get through telling everybody that "true facts" is a
meaningless redundancy?
> So it's possible for
> someone to ignore the fact that water freezes at 0 degrees C, and
> then go on to develop a beautiful, inwardly consistent version of
> "truth." This does not mean they can ice skate on Lake Eerie in
> July.
Pirsig would say water freezing at 0 degrees C is a high-quality idea.
> msh said:
> > I'm always tickled when I run into the "truth is relative" people.
> > This may be "true" but NO ONE believes it, even the people who make
> > the statement. They are, after all, trying to communicate some
> > "truth."
>
> ph said:
> You also appear to ascribe to the notion of what "everybody says"
> must be true (or the negative version, "no one believes it").
> Besides asserting an absolute truth, you seem oblivious to the
> Argumentum ad Populum fallacy.
>
> msh says:
> This interpretation of what I said is so far off, it's difficult to
> comment. But I'll try to be more clear.
>
> In discussion with others, anyone who says "truth is relative" either
> doesn't understand what they are saying, or doesn't believe it. If the
> statement is "true", language is useless as a means of communication.
Let's see if I can clarify what you're trying to say. The statement.
"Truth is relative" is self-contradictory. Right?
> No
> one, including Pirsig, would bother to make the statement, much less write
> a book about it or anything else.
There you go again. Asserting another absolute truth that's false. As a
matter of fact, (pun intended) there's a book on truth entitled "Truth" by
Felipe Fernandez-Armesto that has an entire chapter devoted to "relative
truth."
Best,
Platt
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