From: Adam Watt (adamwatt@mac.com)
Date: Mon Jun 14 2004 - 15:42:59 BST
On Monday, June 14, 2004, at 02:43 pm, Mark Steven Heyman wrote:
> On 14 Jun 2004 at 8:29, Wim Nusselder wrote:
>
> If subject-object thinking can be integrated in the MoQ, why can't
> Ayn Rand's Objectivism? If translated into 'high quality intellectual
> patterns of value' (or lower quality, depending on what you compare
> it with), we would get a more constructive type of discussion than in
> this way.
>
> msh says:
> Sure, all kinds of ideas can be incorporated into the MoQ. However,
> IMO, the most constructive type of discussion would ALWAYS keep in
> view the distinction between theory and reality.
>
> I agree with Platt that LILA provides textual justification for
> saying that theoretical "Free Market" societies are in most ways
> morally superior to "Socialialist" societies. The problem is that no
> such "Free Market" societies exist. And never have. Any discussion
> that fails to note this "reality" is, to put it politely, mental self-
> gratification. This applies as well to Pirsig's discussion of the
> issue, IMO.
AW - Right. Platt seems to thing were all commies/socialists
(fascists!).. whatever.. And sets about debunking theses theories
accordingly. Personally, I don't see anyone championing any of them.
Platt uses Pirsig to back up the higher quality of the 'Free Market'.
What I think Pirsig says, is that Capitalism is more moral because its
dynamic. I actually agree. Platt also seems to think that only
'conservatives' support capitalism. I don't know why. Every western
government supports capitalism, and most others too. I don't have time
to dig up the quotes, but Pirsig also states elsewhere that pure
Dynamic Quality needs a latch, ie: it needs adherance to static
patterns, to work in society. Regulation. So my understanding of it is
this - Yes, capitalism is of higher quality than communism etc.. a free
market is dynamic. But pure dynamic quality does not work in a social
context. One reason why static patterns exist. So, capitalism is the
highest dynamic quality system, but in order for it to have the highest
social quality, it needs latched by static (economic) patterns. IMO, a
lot. Capitalism is the most dynamic, but I liken it to a dangerous
animal, it needs to be kept on a leash, for left to it's own devices it
is dangerous indeed. I believe the MOQ supports this perfectly.
Hope that's clear anyway(?), it is to me.. I would have liked to have
had more time to write this rather hurried response, but sadly gotta
rush..
Best wishes to all,
Adam
>
> Best to all,
> Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
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