From: Dan Glover (daneglover@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Jun 26 2004 - 07:22:01 BST
Hello everyone
>From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>Subject: Re: [Spam] Re: MD immoral irony?????
>Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:31:13 -0700
>
>Hi all,
>
>On 25 Jun 2004 at 15:23, Dan Glover wrote:
>
>someone said:
> >By the same token, I cannot intellectually close the door on
> >investigations of racial differences that meet Pirsig's tests for
> >truth -- logical consistency, agreement with experience, and economy
> >of explanation. To do so would violate the spirit of scientific
> >inquiry and the MOQ itself.
>
>dan said:
>I think so too.
>
>msh says:
>And this brings us back to the question of scientific evidence in
>favor of the idea that "race" is a valid and useful construct. The
>OVERWHELMING evidence, as I believe I pointed out, is that the
>concept involves a social distinction based on superficial
>appearances. A distinction made for some pretty ugly reasons, and
>none of them scientific.
>
>Therefore, I see no logical consistency, agreement with experience,
>or economy of explanation in clinging to race-based explanations of
>human intelligence and behavior. I can, however, envision social
>reasons for such tenacity.
Hi Mark
I think you may be conflating biological and social patterns of value. The
MOQ is divided into four levels plus Dynamic Quality. The inorganic and
biological level patterns of value are objective. They can be seen and
studied with scientific instruments. The social and intellectual level
patterns of value are subjective. No instrument can detect the President. As
you note, normally we think of racism as based on superficial and unfounded
reasoning-- social patterns of value -- subjective, in other words. Yet
there are differences between the races at the biological level as well as I
noted in my reply to Gav.
As for intelligence, I don't know where it comes from. I don't think anyone
does. It's been apparent to me for some time that some people are more
intelligent than others but I don't see it as a racial issue. Plus the fact
that there are so many different kinds of intelligence...you open a whole
can of wiggly worms when you start talking intelligence.
Thank you for your comments.
Dan
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