LS Re: Senses


Diana McPartlin (diana@asiantravel.com)
Thu, 25 Sep 1997 20:37:14 +0100


Magnus Berg wrote:
>
> Diana wrote:
> >No, the intellectual patterns are built on the values that hold together
> >human society. Muscle contractions and neural signals are biological
> >value.
>
> Magnus:
> Both are language, ways of communication on different scales.

Yes. But so what? When I said that language spawned intellectual value I
was talking about human language, specifically. Neural contractions have
a biological function - that's what matters.

 
> >Diana wote:
> >Sorry Magnus but I have doubts about your view because I cannot see how
> >it explains reality better than Pirsig's. If you throw away Pirsig's
> >definitions of inorganic, biological, social and intellecutal value, you
> >throw away his entire MoQ. And what do you replace it with?
>
> Magnus:
> Is *that* what you think? Don't you see I'm not throwing anything away?
> I'm just applying it on a different scale.

Well perhaps that wasn't what you set out to do. But if you follow your
ideas to their logical conclusion that's what happens. Maybe I've been
misinterpreting your ideas but didn't you say that biological value
wasn't much to do with biology. This is completely at odds with Pirsig's
explanations of biological value. It is throwing away Pirsigs'
explanations of biological value.

 And I don't think Pirsig
> really
> defined the levels anywhere, he gave examples but that's not
> definitions.

Sorry I kicked myself as soon as I saw the word "definition". I'm
realizing that when you're talking about the MoQ it's so easy to use
words casually and then find out later that you've tripped yourself up.

Anyway, of course Pirsig hasn't given definitions of the values. Nor
will he ever, nor will anyone else. It is impossible. The whole concept
of a
definition is intellectual. But biological and social value can only be
explained in biological and social terms. It doesn't make any sense to
try and explain them intellectually. To do so is like trying to explain
what chocolate tastes like. You can't. The only way you can explain it
is by giving the other person a piece so that they can taste it
themselves.

The only way that Pirsig could explain the values was by throwing enough
examples at us so that eventually we would figure out what he was on
about.

Diana

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