Bodvar Skutvik (skutvik@online.no)
Sat, 13 Dec 1997 03:48:32 +0100
5 December Ken Clark wrote:
> Good Morning,
> First, I like the subject line of this thread. It pleases me to see that
> Bodvar has top billing over God. When I look at the sweep of history I just
> hope that he will do a better job. Right On! Bodvar.
I'll try. The first act of Bo is to change the heading! If it stays
the same I am not omnipotent.
> I have been following the discussion with much pleasure. I would like to
> see if I can sort out my ideas and present them for criticism.
> I get the feeling that the discussion is still bogged down in an
> egocentric concept of humanity. It reads to me as if most of you are still
> looking at humanity as somehow special and separate from nature. This is
> not my feeling at all.
> When I watch the wildlife and my yard dogs and cat interact I see similar
> motivations and anxieties that move humans. I see rudimentary thinking and
> planning ahead going on that are not a great leap from the position that us
> humans occupy. If one looks at the sweep of evolution as we currently
> understand it, I believe that we can see a fairly linear development of
> awareness and understanding that leads straight to us.'.......
and so in Ken's splendid prose.
I really appreciate your letters, and read with great interest the
charming stories of dogs behavior, observations of geographical and
linguistic particularities etc. But I also sense a note of despair
over the intricacies of the LS dispute, and over the Q in general.
You study the universe and find it objective. You study the past and
find no great leap from animals to humanoids and "homo sapiens". You
study your dogs and see rudimentary thinking and ability to
anticipate the future.
Absolutely, but this is not contradictory to the Quality idea, more
to "ordinary" thinking that requires an inventor of - first - the
natural laws and then creator of matter to obey these laws. Then an
unbelievable chance that assembled matter into life, and a
thinking spirit to enable life - including your dogs - to behave
intelligently, and finally a ghostly soul to preserve our human
identity.
May I roam a little? I once read an article in "Scientific American"
about a theory called "The Anthropic Principle". It started with
telling how every physical constant (the charge of the electron and
so on) seems to balance on a knife's edge; not only one such value,
but all of them! We know what the chances are for one such feat, and
then for a whole series to be exact on the point - and stay there. It
is exactly zero! So, ordinary thinking (read: SOM) has to concoct
such theories as the said Anthropic Pinciple to account for this
miracle, and other wild theories of the same kind. "The many
universes" for instance. In my younger days reading of such weird
ideas gave me great thrills; now it bores me because I see it is
vain efforts to get around their own obstacles.
Instead of Anthropic principles why not the Quality principles which
say that the physical constants came to attain their values because
it was the ones that "offered themselves" to (the formation of)
matter. There is no more need for an electron to have" a particular
charge than for your dogs "to have" thinking ability to know when you
are to take them for a walk (they sense the value of what keeps a dog
alive and happy). Or for a human "to have" consciousness to think. We
sense the same biological values as dogs when it comes to the bodily
needs and pleasures, but the Social value's "feelings" of right and
wrong override these to a great extent. Which in turn are modified
by Intellectual values of what is "rational".
PS. The Social values of dogs (which we derogatory
call pack instincts) may also override their biology. The top dog is
the one to eat first and mate the bitch, isn't that so?
Have a nice weekend
Bo
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