clark (clark@netsites.net)
Sat, 18 Apr 1998 19:23:48 +0100
----------
From: Tommy Sülla og Gunn Era <sulla@online.no>
To: Multiple recipients of <lilasqd@mail.hkg.com>
Subject: LS Re: Explain the subject-object metaphysics
Date: Saturday, April 18, 1998 5:43 AM
Diana, thank you for making space for us with
fainter voices, us who have more questions than
answers.
I have a feeling that in a S-O world, mind is equal
to conscious mind, a mind that sees only objects
and other subjects surrounding its own subject.
If we accept subliminal perception, we will have to
have a broader view on mind. For instance, as Tor
Nörretranders suggests, we are a "ME" that percepts
and throws away superfluous information and
presents the vital information for the "I". "I" being
the conscious mind that does not have enough
bandwidth to process all information we receive
through our senses.
So if "I" is analog to static quality and "ME" is analog
dynamic quality, does that mean that Quality, being
in front of perception, is analog to our soul, the patterns
that makes me the special one that I am?
And is it so that S-O thinking is typical for the Western
civilsation only?
Answers and thoughts are welcomed.
Gunn
-- post message - mailto:lilasqd@hkg.com unsubscribe/queries - mailto:diana@asiantravel.com homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670---------- Gunn and LS, Can someone with a literal mind get in? I am completely befuddled by philosophy. When we have to spend much of our time deciding what the words mean that we are using I think we need to get a hard philosophical vocabulary. Some of you may have heard the mercifully obscure song, "I'm My Own Grandpa", in which the singer goes through his lineage and proves that he is his own Grandpa. That is the way that I see philosophy. Seriously, I see philosophy as the attempt to make sense of our gradually enlarging awareness of our situation in the universal process in which we are embedded. I think that, at present, it is still bogged down in a S-O view of the universe. When I look back through the evolution of life I see that the first indications of awareness is a pure Subject-Object reaction. The avoidance of low quality ambience by Paramecia and such. As we progress up the chain of life we see more complex behaviors develop, but still completely S-O. When we get to the level of the honeybees we see the concept of the swarm as the individual and the individual bees as being (organs?) in the swarm entity. Farther along, with the development of dogs and cattle and elephants and such like we begin to see altruism develop. Recently my dog Lady died of old age. In the Process I watched Nellie, her younger protege take care of her as she became increasingly feeble. She let me know when Lady needed help and guarded Lady's sleeping area constantly. When Lady died she actively grieved for a week or ten days. This was distinctly human behavior as modified by levels of awareness. When we get to the level of humanity we see increasingly complex behaviors as our level of understanding of our position in the universe unfolds. The vast majority of the current thinking that goes on is Subject-Object thinking because we are limited by our understanding of our relation to the process in which we are embedded. This is what has caused the writhings of the philosophers over the years. They are not working with a full deck. Pirsig has made a valiant effort to sort this all out but his apparent lack understanding of the overall picture seems to me to limit his ability to do so. Some of his remarks with regard to the various levels of Static Quality seem to me to bear this out. We are still mired in a perceived Subject-Object universe because of our lack of a complete understanding. We are making progress. Probably where we will wind up is in a position similar to fully informed and aware honeybees. Gunn, If I understand your interpretation of the soul, that it results from the selections that your particular Dynamic Quality makes from your sea of awareness as guided by your total personal history and current ambient conditions then I agree with you. In this view everyone has a soul determined by their particular level of understanding and receptivity. In my opinion it all results from the force for greater information content that I think has operated in the universe from the beginning. Calling it God is fine as long as He isn't a personal God who tells us to go forth and kill all the infidels. A beautiful Saturday here on Cornshell Mountain. Ken
-- post message - mailto:lilasqd@hkg.com unsubscribe/queries - mailto:diana@asiantravel.com homepage - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/4670
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