Hi Andre & Squonk, & all others,
I will combine a few of André's & Squonk's brief emails into one and
response to them.
----- Original Message -----
From: André <psytrancekid@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: MD Consciousness
>
> > Gary's Response: The mind is not a collective noun
> > but a singular noun.
> > Each and every human being has one singular mind.
> > It is the term for our
> > experience of thinking and being aware. It is our
> > experience of processing
> > our thoughts, memories, feeling, emotions, and all
> > our sensory events.
>
> Gary,
>
> Food for thought I hope ...
>
> Computers have memories of the past. Thermometers feel
> hot and cold. Cameras can see. A tear is the child of
> emotion. Is there a place in your metaphysics for any
> of these objects having a mind?
>
> André
>
Gary's Response: All of the things you list have no self awareness. They
are carries of data without awareness of the data. Without self-awareness
they lack mind. computers have no memories only stored data without access
to them by themselves. Cameras do not see they are passive receptors of
photons. Same with a Thermometer, it is a passive receptor. "A tear is the
child of emotion" is a beautiful phrase and has high Romantic Quality, but
it is irrelevant in a discussion of what does or does not have a mind. All
those things are all mindless.
This is from Squonk:" I suppose I am trying to say that a description or
definition of mind is inadequate.
That the concept mind arose from culture appears certain, but let us not
analyze mind as a real entity when it is more fictitious than otherwise?"
Gary's response: The term "mind" like all words has a cultural history.
According to Julian Jaynes, Consciousness as the "mental space" of the
"mind" is an invention. This is true. But, the reality behind the word
still exists. There is a non-verbal reality called mind. "The Tao that can
be spoken is not the True Tao." "The word is not the thing." The word
"mind" has a variety of definitions. But the awareness of thinking,
feeling, sensing reality, all of this takes place and is the activity which
can be labeled with the word "mind". It is the 4th MOQ level of Pirsig.
Squonk again said: However, we must be careful not to almost immediately
fall back into a Cartesian mind set!
Gary's response: Absolutely. The mind should not be considered as something
radically different than the body. The mind arises out of the body
processes. The mind is the awareness of the bodies activities. Quality is
that which gives both their structure, their existence. Hence no Cartesian,
Subject vs. Object problem.
Andre said: Perhaps dealing with thoughts, memories, feeling,
emotions one at a time might help with the (SOM)
definition of "mind". Then, (enter dualism) we have
the issue of what is not-mind.
Gary's Response: What is not mind? Just about everything. Mind is the
internal experience of a human being. The mind is Internal reality.
Everything not words, thoughts, feelings, sensory experience, dreams, etc.
all this is 4th level mind. Everything else is not mind, External Reality.
The mind is a sensation of innerness of a single individual, and all humans
[and any other self aware species] have their own singular mind. Everything
made from matter and energy is not mind. Mind is the result of the
structure of the matter and energy patterns of biology that make up a human
body.
Andre said: For MoQ "Static Intellectual
Patterns" is fine and, to me, meaningful. Although
nothing is static, because people use phrases like
"... I suddenly realized ...", meaning my static
pattern has just altered slightly or completely.
Gary's Response: Pirsig used the term "stable patterns" once or twice in
Lila. I wish he had stuck with that term rather than Static. Everything is
a stable pattern of matter and energy. All of those stable patterns are
more or less static , more or less dynamic. Static and Dynamic are aspects
of all stable patterns throughout a patterns existence.
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