Hi Bo and all. I Will comment on just the stuff address to me.
----- Original Message -----
From: <skutvik@online.no>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: QRe: MD What is SOM?
> Gary, Valdeane, Maggie, Jonathan & Multitude
>
> On 29 Jun Gary commented:
>
> (on this statement of mine)
> > > But this is dependent upon accepting my SOL idea that SOM=Q-intellect.
>
> > GARY'S RESPONSE: I still do not get why we need SOLAQI? I've read and
> > re-read Dan Glover's essay on SOLAQI many many times.
>
> I am grateful that you have tried to come to grips with my SOL-idea and I
know why you
> didn't get it ........see lower down.
>
> > SOM is not Quality
> > Intellect. Subject Object Metaphysics is a normal and natural human
made
> > map/theory/construct which arises out of the nature of Western
linguistic
> > grammar/structure and Aristotealian Logic.
>
> Your version of how the SOM arose I don't contest - seriously - maybe
language plays some
> role (but if so can it be mended, it still have the same structure) yet,
we have Pirsig's story in
> ZAMM and it's most convincing.
>
> > It is not inherent in the nature
> > of or the structure of the human mind/Pirsig's 4th level Intelect. But
all
> > of this is for another thread of discussion.
>
> From this I see why you reject the SOLAQI. You look upon the intellectual
level as a vessel
> called "the human mind": A realm of thoughts or ideas; SOM one idea and
the MOQ
> another, and in such a view my postulate is nonsense - that much I give
you - but tell me
> Gary, what is NOT an intellectual pattern in this your view? If you find
anything outside mind
> I congratulate you
GARY'S RESPONSE: Everything that a human thinks, all intellectual
maps/patterns/beleifs/etc is "inside" the 4th level . Which is why in my
essay I divide reality into "Internal" and "External". We humans live in
our minds. We think, feel, experience through our mind. That is Internal
Reality. External Reality is Everything that doesn't go away when we close
our eyes. External Reality is everything that is a stable pattern of matter
and energy. Both External Reality and Interal Reality are real. One is our
personal experience of reality. The other is the stuff of reality - matter
& energy. My essay attempt to explains how mind arises out of our biology.
At present I don't accept or reject SOLAQI. I don't really understand it to
decide either way. I definately beleive that SOM and MOQ are human maps
of reality and that is all that I consider them to be. MOQ is a better,
more accurate map. SOLAQI is what? Is it a theory of how we got from SOM
to MOQ? A necessary stage from SOM to MOQ? I keep going back over Dan
Glover's 3 essays and it just doesn't see to stick.
>
> *********************************
>
> For Valdeane W Brown who commented on
>
> This statement of mine:
> > > Yes, the Matter+Life =Object, Society+Intellect=Subject is a way of
> > > subsuming the SOM
> > > (another is the said SOL idea), but nowhere in LILA does Pirsig speak
> > > about "consciousness" as any "continental divide". OK you are now off
on
> > > vacation so let's postpone the consciousness issue until later.
>
> > <val:>I'll be waiting to hear more on that -- should I look in the
> > archives?
>
> Hello Val, nice to meet you.
> Always a good idea to look in the archives, but the above way of aligning
the SOM in the
> MOQ is clearest expressed in the SODAV paper to be found at the homepage.
>
>
> *********************************
>
> For Maggie who wrote (1 July):
>
> (to answer Platt's enigmatic)
>
> > > What's the mind in?
>
> > Society.
>
> Hi Maggie.
> The tenet of the MOQ that each value level has its origin in the former is
often overlooked,
> and your short "quip" was a good reminder ...... an "Ariadne Thread" out
of the SOM-made
> labyrinths so many tend to bring the discussion into.
>
>
>
*********************************
>
>
> For Jonathan
> Great piece your last, I agree with the confusion part but am disappointed
that you see my
> SOL-intellect as undermining the MOQ. This by one who wants it removed
...but more later.
>
> Bo
>
>
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