Hi David B:
> I knew it was too good to be true. When it comes down to particulars, we
> again part company and disagree. Speaking in general terms you seem to want
> to preserve the independence of the intellectual level, but when it comes
> to actual real world examples you contradict explicit statements by Pirsig
> and thereby mix up what goes where. For example, Pirsig puts socialism at
> the intellectual level, but you call it fundamentalism and thereby put it
> at the social level.
Perhaps I failed to make myself clear. I agree that according to the
MOQ socialism fits in the intellectual level. I have no argument with
Pirsig's placement. I call it" fundamentalism" because the proponents of
the Principles of International Socialism are often just as rabid in the
defense of their beliefs as Christian fundamentalists, and, if given half a
chance, would be willing to impose their beliefs on others via a police
state. Never forget that what the majority of Germans voted into power in
the 1930s was the National SOCIALIST German Workers party.
> I know you don't like the left. You've taken the
> opportunity to attack Al Gore, Noam Chomsky, Karl Marx and the UN here and
> that only shows your affinity with the reactionaries. Nearly every fascist
> and nearly ever fundamentalist shares your view about these figures.
I'm surprised that you, having correctly lectured Squonk on his use of
specious arguments, would use the old "guilt by association" ploy of
Joe McCarthy fame. I could just as easily say that nearly every
communist and radical Islamist shares your view in calling George Bush
a "weak-minded dolt." Surely we can do better.
> I can
> only conclude that you're on the wrong side in this battle and that you
> don't know how to properly use the MOQ's moral compass.
>
> Pirsig...
> Communism and socialism, programs for intellectual control over society,
> were confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a program for the
> social control of intellect. ... The gigantic power of socialism and
> fascism, which have overwhelmed this century, is explained by a conflict of
> levels of evolution.
Likewise I conclude you are on the wrong side because your MOQ
moral compass is out of whack. What you choose to overlook, due to
your leftist leanings, is the following:
Pirsig:
"What makes the free-enterprise system superior is that the socialists,
reasoning intelligently and objectively, have inadvertently closed the
door to Dynamic Quality in the buying and selling of things. They closed
it because the metaphysical structure of their objectivity never told them
Dynamic Quality exists."
Quite bluntly, Pirsig says capitalistic free enterprise is superior to
socialism. To deny that is simply and utterly wrong.
The intellectual control of society that Pirsig does find compatible with
the MOQ is that of the American Constitution and Bill of Rights,
formulated by arguably one of the finest group of intellectuals ever to
come together in one place at one time. The Founding Fathers
understood as few did before or have since, "the moral right of intellect
to be free of social control."
Pirsig:
"This soup of sentiments about logically nonexistent entities can be
straightened out by the Metaphysics of Quality. It says that what is
meant by "human rights" is usually the moral code of intellect-vs. -
society, the moral right of intellect to be free of social control. Freedom
of speech; freedom of assembly, of travel; trial by jury; habeas corpus;
government by consent-these "human rights" are all intellect-vs.-society
issues. According to the Metaphysics of Quality these "human rights"
have not just a sentimental basis, but a rational, metaphysical basis.
They are essential to the evolution of a higher level of life from a lower
level of life. They are for real."
So if you want to know "what goes where" in real terms, read the U.S.
Constitution and Bill of Rights. That's where the meaning of the MOQ as
a political doctrine advocating intellectual control of society will be found.
Platt
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