Elliot:
And all i really want to know is why you argue for capitalism, and not just
capitalism but also often the current state of capitalism, when you admit it
is not the best. i say: negate that which is failing and that which is
oppressive. Take what you know to be good about capitalism, its strengths,
drop the rest and help formulate something of higher Quality.
ROG:
I concur completely. Sometimes we disagree where it fails, or at least where
it fails vs the current competition. I certainly agree though that we should
always keep an open eye and an active hand toward better solutions. I also
sometimes don't agree with all your specific solutions. I agree with some
though, and i certainly value your dynamic and creative initiative. Very
moral.
ELLIOT:
I think perhaps you dont yet see to what extent markets subordinate
intellectual Quality. You seem to invision a libertarian civilization where
there are no monopolies, no cold colossal corporations controling products
from mines to check out lines (with workers, not craftsmen, who must
subordinate their spontinaity to the apparatus), no advertisers, and mythos
which spring from artists and visionaries rather than people trying to make
a buck. These things i think are part of the market system, things work
more efficently this way: markets tend towards this type of organization.
But these things can be negated and the strengths behind them preserved in a
different system/mode of production. The alternative to markets isnt only
socialist dictators/beauracracies, there are as many ideas a paintings.
ROG:
I would gladly help you to build one, but you may find that I differ with you
too frequently on how to appraoch the issue. See my 9 month long "Is Society
Making Progress" thread on this topic with Wim. I frustrate him frequently
whenever we get off the subject of generalities and onto the messy problems
of detail and appraoch. I prefer process solutions. I prefer establishing
processes or mechanisms or conditions or attractors that will allow the
system to progress without too much static definition of what higher quality
looks like. Wim prefers concrete solutions.
I prefer to create evolutionary adaptive systems. I believe I have a better
idea of what types of systems are progressive than I do of specific answers
to other people's in other places and times problems. So I focus on building
adaptive systems and allow those with the most knowledge of specific needs,
values and problems to adapt it to their time and place.
Rog
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