hi, bodvar, you say:
There is a "mystic" faction in the squad that wants to make
the Q-Intellect into the mind of SOM (awareness, consciousness) and
it must be resisted by all means. Again, the MOQ is a relief from
the spiritualization dead end.
Lithien says:
i do not characterize Zen as spiritualization. what exactly do you so
vehemently protest about? could you explain it to me in simple terms. are
you alledging that SOM thinking is brought about by zen? on the contrary,
zen cuts across the intellect level like a razor-sharp blade and allows one
to respond to reality in an instinctive manner that would eliminate SOM.
this is because the subject and the object temporarily become one. which is
the best one can do in this physical manifestation. otherwise we would be
insane.
which btw is what pirsig alludes to with Lila's other reality and his own
when he became Phaedrus.
when deep in zazen, one hears a sound and follows the sound waves only to
find oneself at the end. therefore, i see zen as a way to combat SOM.
if you disagree tell me why. but i must protest my right to explore my
thoughts in this forum like everyone else.
Lithien
p.s - you didnt sound too friendly to me...friendly bo.
http://members.tripod.com/~lithien/Lila2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Bodvar Skutvik <skutvik@online.no>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Date: Thursday, December 10, 1998 2:35 AM
Subject: Re: MD Brain, Mind and Intellect
THE ABOMINABLE SNOWMAN GROWLS AGAIN.
Ladies and Gentlemen
I address no one in particular, but I am not amused by the turn the
discussion has taken lately. 'Intuition', 'God', 'instincts'. 'zen'!
Don't you see that the MOQ is a liberation from all those SOMish
skyhooks (yes, even 'zen' as used by us Westerns is a red herring).
There is a "mystic" faction in the squad that wants to make
the Q-Intellect into the mind of SOM (awareness, consciousness) and
it must be resisted by all means. Again, the MOQ is a relief from
the spiritualization dead end. Mind and all its offshoots sounds
noble and lofty at first, but is like p...ing in your pants to keep
warm; soon it's a cold mess.
Spiders spinning perfect nets on drugs, babies knowing how to talk,
birds to build nests, and ourselves how to eat when hungry and
possibly make love without sexologists telling us. It's all Biology
and biology alone. Mary, Horse and Keith has written splendidly on
it, but p.t. I'm short on time and have only skimmed it.
I said no names but this paragraph by Glove reveals the nucleus of
it all:
> Horse, if we suppose a physical, actual object as instinct, as it
> would be if it were biological, then it is of primary importance
> that we can point to it and say there! that is where the instincts
> are stored! right there! because if we cannot do that, then
> instinct does not belong to the biological level but to either the
> social or intellect, the subjective, non-actual side of reality.
We DON'T suppose ...physical, actual objects ...in the MOQ! The
various static levels are moral planes. Quality "dimensions"!!!
There are nothing more"physical" in the subject-object sense about
Inorganic or Biology than about Society and Intellect. This sounds
strange, but it is the first axiom of the MOQ and something that MUST
be heeded when talking metaphysics.
However - with this in mind - we may step down from the "Q-level"
and say: " Okay, now my focus is in the Q-Intellctual
(subject-object) sphere and as a physiologist I will open
someone's brains and find the site for instincts, or the gene
for doing philosophy - or whatever. This is valid in the MOQ too, but
as no physicist in his right mind will believe that the forces or
particles of physics has any existence outside math, no MOQist must
fall for the silly SOM notion of an "objective" world out there
....or a "subjective in here" for that matter.
Glove, you are such a nice fellow and I know you won't feel bad for
my swooping down on you this way, but these points must be made
unless we are off into a "black hole". Sheldrake is OK, but he
struggles with the SOM starting point and it becomes mysticism.
Friendly
Bo
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