platt explains to mary:
In Chapter 5 of LILA, Pirsig gives as good a definition of mysticism as
I've found anywhere.
lithien:
i quoted that same definition too. there is a difference between mystical
spiritualism and mystics as metaphysical philsophy.
platt says:
I asked myself, "What's the alternative?"
and find an answer in the MoQ. It may not be the right answer, but I
haven't found anything better. Or maybe mystics have the best answer
after all.
lithien:
that parallel between the mystics and MOQ is what i would like to discuss.
http://members.tripod.com/~lithien/Lila2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Platt Holden <pholden5@earthlink.net>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: MD Brain, Mind and Intellect
Hi Mary and LS:
Mary wrote:
> Lithien, my request for corrections was directed at the Squad as a whole.
I
> guess that wasn't apparent, though. That's the trouble with email!
>
> You've raised a number of challenges for me in your recent posts. I'm
> working hard to overcome my prejudices about mysticism. That's why I want
> so much for others to tell me how they would define it. Currently, I
value
> logic very highly and hold mysticism suspect. Perhaps if I reveal my
> underlying thoughts against it you and others will be able to straighten
me
> out.
>
> Mysticism is grounded in nothing more than hopes and fears. To me, it's
> just so much wishful thinking. Its a stage in human development that
logic
> has superseded. We used to have all sorts of gods and goddesses we
> beseeched to help us overcome our problems. We used to all pray for rain,
> good crops, the curing of disease. Now we have science to tell us when
it's
> probably going to rain, agricultural engineering to improve our crops, and
> medicine to cure disease. We no longer need mysticism to get through the
> day.
>
> At the time mysticism was developed it was a great help to us because we
> didn't understand anything about why thunderstorms occurred, why the stars
> seemed to move in predictable patterns across the sky, or why there were
> things like eclipses. With no understanding and no logical scientific way
> to figure out what was going on, we invented mystical explanations for
> almost everything. We invented imaginary personages more powerful than
> ourselves because we felt so powerless. I'm not saying we were stupid,
just
> that we didn't have any tools to work with to help us overcome our
> powerlessness.
>
> Then came a new way of thinking. Logic. Logic was the next ratcheting up
> on the intellectual static scale. We now acquired a tool, and the more we
> used it the less powerless we became. But as with all ratchets, the old
one
> (mysticism) was still there. Mysticism was a lower level static value
that
> suddenly found itself in opposition to - being attacked by - logic.
> Mysticism as a static value with the rights of existence accorded to every
> other static value tries to defend itself against logic to this very day.
> But logic is a higher static value and resists.
In Chapter 5 of LILA, Pirsig gives as good a definition of mysticism as
I've found anywhere:
"They (mystics) share a common belief that the fundamental nature of
reality is outside language; that language splits things up into parts
while
the true nature of reality is undivided."
Of course this belief is an unprovable. But classical science also rests on
an unprovable assumption, namely, that reality exists independent of man-
-an assumption quantum physics has seriously questioned. The physicist
Werner Heisenbergy wrote:
"From the very start we are involved in the argument between nature and
man in which science plays only a part, so that the common division of
the world into subject and object, inner world and outer world, body and
soul is no longer adequate and leads us into difficulties."
When a noted physicist admits that dividing the world into subjects and
objects is no longer adequate, I asked myself, "What's the alternative?"
and find an answer in the MoQ. It may not be the right answer, but I
haven't found anything better. Or maybe mystics have the best answer
after all.
Platt
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