Hi Horse and Lilacs,
Horses footer reads:-
<<<
"Prejudice is the greatest labour saving device known to man,
it enables one to form an opinion without having to go to
the trouble of checking the facts.
>>>
Why do I feel that Horse "prejudges" my post of 7th Dec where I first
suggested that Intellect didn't really fit AS A LEVEL.
In that post, I claimed that what we and Pirsig have been calling
Intellectual Values might more conveniently be called Social Values e.g.
MAGNUS says
>Intellectual Quality Events of a country on the other hand
>are usually called elections...
I think that we can equally well call elections a "social event".
HORSE:-
>As far as I'm aware the MoQ is based upon 4 levels of value.
Pirsig DOES say this, but he also confuses it by talking about 5 types
of morality.
Magnus and Bo lose the concept of levels altogether by going off into
new dimensions.
>When this changes
>to 3 it is at this point that the MoQ gets mauled. But why bother to
stop at 3?
>Why not just go for one or even better no levels,...
Why indeed? We should stop with whatever seems the most useful. It
wasn't so long ago that Horse himself considered the utility of adding a
5th level!
>after all there is no empirical
>evidence for the existence of anything.
Horse! Since you bring up empiricism, I ask you to bring some EMPIRICAL
EVIDENCE to support the distinction of Intellectual from Social
patterns:-)
JONATHAN:-
> The prime value in our society is the wallet.
HORSE
<<<
I'm sure Rupert Murdoch, Bill Gates, Robert Maxwell, Margaret ("There is
no
society, only individuals") Thatcher, General Pinochet, Idi Amin, Adolf
Hitler, Pol
Pot et. al. would agree with you. Is this the company you would prefer
to keep?
Or would you prefer the company of Galileo, Jefferson, Martin Luther
King, Gandhi
and others who prefered to believe that truth, freedom and the rights of
the person -
all intellectual values - are of greater value than money and power -
social values
[snip]
If you prefer the dominance of the intellect by society then that's your
choice - but
I think I'll stick with what's right and what's good.
>>>
I call it for what it is. Unfortunately, it is not up to me personally
to determine society's values.
But I know what *I* consider right and good. One thing I *know* is that
movements which have *claimed* to place intellect and logic first have
been responsible for some of the most immoral behaviour known to man.
Jonathan
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