hi, diana, you quote:
There are many sets of
intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to have more
quality than others, but that we can do so is, in part, the result of our
history and current patterns of values. "
lithien:
that is all i wanted said. to invalidate one perception over the other when
there is ample evidence to the contrary is narrow mindedness. i can
understand the other side without having to agree with it!
diana adds:
The metaphysics of quality is as much an intellectual pattern as the SOM;
the ultimate reality is mystic. Pirsig is perfectly clear about that.
lithien:
i even quoted the part where Pirsig explains this, but they ignored me.
diana continues:
Philosophers should see themselves as artists painting
intellectual pictures of reality
lithien:
that as close as we can ever come to it. what the zombie articles showed
was that there is more to the mind than most people think. there is an
unexplored side that warrants consideration not right out dismissal.
diana finishes:
I'm still not clear why you, Bodvar, insist on this.
lithien:
i dont know either. although, i did ask him to explain it in terms i could
understand. and i still don't.
all i want is legitimacy for my contentions and you and kilian have provided
that much.
thank you,
Lithien
http://members.tripod.com/~lithien/Lila2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: diana@hongkong.com <diana@hongkong.com>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 10:38 AM
Subject: MD Thought and the intellectual level
>Bodvar and Squad
>
>For those of you who are still listening, I've decided that the
>intellectual level is "thinking" but it is not equivalent to awareness
>per se. Awareness includes the zombie/zen mind/intuitive/dynamic
>awareness, and, for humans it includes social and biological awareness
>as well.
>
>Intellectually we may be aware of these other awarenesses and we can put
>them into words, ie "I want a cookie", but these are abstractions of the
>actual biological or social awareness.
>
>I've forgotten who said it now and I can't face sorting through the
>trash to find it, but someone said that we're getting confused because
>the social and intellectual levels are so deeply intertwined. I think
>this is true and it's because of the way the two have evolved molding
>and mediating each other as they go. The social level appropriates the
>intellectual level for its own purposes. Thus you have ideas which are
>intellectual patterns but which are held for social reasons. If you can
>separate the valuing of the idea in itself and the valuing of holding
>the same ideas as your social group then you have the separation of the
>social and intellectual level. The social level is mostly about
>following everyone else. The intellectual level is any mental
>abstraction of the world, ie thinking.
>
>>From chap 8
>
>"One seeks the highest quality intellectual explanation of things with
>the knowledge that if the past is any guide to the future this
>explanation must be taken provisionally; as useful until something
>better comes along. One can then examine intellectual realities the same
>way one examines paintings in an art gallery ... There are many sets of
>intellectual reality in existence and we can perceive some to have more
>quality than others, but that we can do so is, in part, the result of
>our history and current patterns of values. "
>
>The metaphysics of quality is as much an intellectual pattern as the
>SOM; the ultimate reality is mystic. Pirsig is perfectly clear about
>that. Philosophers should see themselves as artists painting
>intellectual pictures of reality. So is the SOM the intellectual level?
>I'm still not clear why you, Bodvar, insist on this, but, for the time
>being, I will stick with the idea that the intellect is thought, because
>I believe that's what Pirsig says, it seems to be the simplest
>explanation and I've yet to see anyone come up with anything better.
>
>Diana
>
>
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>
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