dear fintan, you ask:
So why can some not see the validity of pre-intellectual experience?
lithien:
it could be that something that is not understood may be fearful to them.
as shakespeare put it in Macbeth:
"Security is a mortal's chiefest enemy"
fintan continues:
Only thing is......I am not happy with the word Zombie
It smacks too much of automatism.
Indeed I would go further and say that it is on the conscious side of the
brain that the word Zombie would best be applied.
lithien:
fintan! that is what the articles allude to. the fact that many times when
we are "conscious" we are really on automatic pilot, like when we are
driving or doing things on routine.
fintan also says:
The instinctual author of our actions is AWARE and is connected to the
Collective Un-conscious.
lithien:
that is something which is both fascinating and worth exploring. i do think
it is connected to the collective unconscious but to its awareness....i can
only speculate.
it depends on how we define awareness. glove and i read The Origins of
Consciousness by Jaynes and awareness is defined very differently from the
norm. are you acquainted with the book? it's great.
finally, fintan says:
Freud is to Jung as
Intelllect is to Experience !
lithien:
great thought! i like that very much.
one other thought from fintan:
A warning from THAT great psychologist to avoid Static Intellectual
Ridgidity and cleave to Experience- as children do!
lithien:
that is the only thing i fear. to grow rigid in thought and not allow
myself to explore other avenues. children have that innate curiosity that
we all have when young and some seem to lose as we grow older. i dont want
to lose it. i want to remain an explorer all my life.
fintan, glove and i have decided we want to get drunk with you in an Irish
pub! i think it would be immensely gratyfying...
Lithien
http://members.tripod.com/~lithien/Lila2.html
-----Original Message-----
From: Fintan Dunne <findunne@iol.ie>
To: moq_discuss@moq.org <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Date: Sunday, December 13, 1998 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: MD Quality as Experience
>Hi Kilian
>
>You Wrote> (and Lithien reminded me thanks)
>>>What the MOQ contends is that there is another portion of reality that
can
>be thought about -- the static level. And within that part, the intellect
>is King. Had Pirsig not made that distinction, he would have failed to
>convince that his MOQ was a better map of reality than a SOM, or anything
>else. I feel this *is* a bridge between Eastern (or at least zen) thought
>and the Western mindset with its dependence on and reverence for
>logical/intellectual thought.
>
>
>Indeed. That reverence amount to virtual WORSHIP of intellect as a the
>supreme achievement of the human mind.
>
>>>Personally, I think this is why the MOQ has so much value: because it
>discusses or maps out, or what have you, the two (Fintan may appreciate the
>symbolism of two) perhaps fundamental divisions of reality: that which we
>can define and that which we cannot. The Dynamic and the Static. The
>Intellect and the Experience.
>
>
>So why can some not see the validity of pre-intellectual experience?
>"Mirror, Mirror on the wall, Who is the fairest of them all"
>The mirror.....that's why.
>The most imprisoning psychological defense mechanism in humans !
>The mirror comes AFTER the Zombie.
>
>Only thing is......I am not happy with the word Zombie
>It smacks too much of automatism.
>Indeed I would go further and say that it is on the conscious side of the
>brain that the word Zombie would best be applied.
>The instinctual author of our actions is AWARE and is connected to the
>Collective Un-conscious. Once again, I would prefer to call this the
>collective pre-Conscious and Con-conscious.
>
>Finally,
>Freud is to Jung as
>Intelllect is to Experience !
>
>Jung even sounds like "Young" and that is synchronistic in itself, for
Jesus
>said "Unless you become as children, you cannot enter the Kingdom of
Heaven"
>A warning from THAT great psychologist to avoid Static Intellectual
>Ridgidity and cleave to Experience- as children do!
>
>Kilian>
>>That was my two cents,
>
>And a very well spent two cents too! Thanks
>
>love
>
>Fintan Mary Dunne
>findunne@iol.ie
>
>
>
>
>
>homepage - http://www.moq.org
>queries - mailto:moq@moq.org
>unsubscribe - mailto:majordomo@moq.org with UNSUBSCRIBE MOQ_DISCUSS in
>body of email
>
homepage - http://www.moq.org
queries - mailto:moq@moq.org
unsubscribe - mailto:majordomo@moq.org with UNSUBSCRIBE MOQ_DISCUSS in
body of email
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:43 BST