ROGER UNDERSTANDS JONATHAN'S OPINION ON THE LEVELS, BUT
CONCURS WITH MAGNUS THAT THE FORECAST FOR THE FUTURE
MAY CONTINUE TO INCLUDE STORMS
To :Jonathan, Platt and Magnus:
I (Roger) Recently wrote to Jonathan:
> Pirsig warns us that what we see as independent
> realities are actually collections of patterns.
Platt and Magnus agreed. Magnus added:
<<<<<Exactly like you, I argued that we
tend to discuss the world in terms of "things" instead of in terms
of patterns. After making this initial mistake, it becomes futile
to make heads or tails of the rest of the MoQ and the result is all
kinds of contradictions.
As you said, I realize that what we say might seem rude. But I
can't honestly advocate a system that I can't make heads or tails
of, and I am unable to make heads or tails out of a "thing"-based
MoQ. If anyone can, I'm quite willing to listen.>>>>>>
But Jonathan Disagrees :
<<<<Roger, I could go on analysing your post and the Pirsig quotes, but I
think this is ground covered before (mostly during August). I still find
Pirsig's scheme too self-contradictory to accept literally without
modification. I know that criticising Pirsig is not favoured in this
discussion, but to put him above criticism is to elevate "celebrity"
over rational dialogue.>>>>>>>
Roger Now Adds:
First, I am all for challenging THE BIG KAHUNA too, and I admire you for
often leading the way. However, I find the MOQ to hold up better to
challenges than you seem to be expressing.
Second, if, like you, I interpret the levels as defined by 'things' other
than by 'moral orders' or 'systems of values' or 'forces of value', I come
to some of the same conclusions that you do. The levels seem simplistic and
arbitrary. The intellectual level seems pasted on top of a superior social
level That is why I follow Pirsig's advice and try to avoid viewing it that
way (I relapse frequently, especially on weekends and months ending in the
letter 'y').
Fundamental questions in metaphysics get amplified throughout all further
discussions, and lead to differences that get wider as we get further from
the foundation. Our differences can hopefully lead to a more dynamic
interaction, but my guess is that Magnus is right and that this gap is going
to continue to plague the Squad in the future.
Roger
PS I apologize for 3 posts in one day, and for my seemingly inconsistent
views,
but the beauty of the MOQ is how it can work on so many disparate levels.
It all makes sense to me!
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