ROGER QUESTIONS WHY PEOPLE ARE REWRITING
HISTORY. PERHAPS SOME MEMBERS ARE TAKING
THE TITLE TO THIS POST LITERALLY AND MAKING
UP THEIR OWN TRUTHS AS THEY GO ALONG
To Bo and Platt and company:
Bo Writes:
<<You made my day Magnus. Finally a solid MOQ-based statement. The
renewed quantum physics debate; Roger airing Schrödinger's cat, the
Einstein-Bohr moon observation etc, seemed to end in the stale
classical standpoints of idealism and materialism, but then you
wielded the MOQ knife. Great!>>
Actually, Jonathan created the cat thread. My(Roger's) only comments were:
<>
And my blunt, rusty stale, materialistic ol’ blade wrote:
<<Particles are abstract intellectual concepts describing value interactions.
Waves are abstract intellectual concepts describing value interactions. Value
creates the subject (self) and the object (cat), and it creates the concepts
of self , cat , particle and wave. Of course, complex objects are formed by
countless trillions of value interactions. But a quantum event , a quantum
QUALITY EVENT, is as close as objective science can get to pure value. They
can get close enough to know it doesn't exist as a distinct OBJECT until
interaction occurs.>>
Magnus subsequently agreed with this and added some valueable insights that
the quantum event was just one level of QE , which I of course agreed with.
For the record, the thread got kinda messy with all the insults tossed into
otherwise good posts, but as some of you try to blacklist Struan, I would
appreciate it if you would not rewrite my portion of history ….however
obviously undeserving of value it might have been.
In protest, I am going to leave all of you out of my prayers for one night.
Now behave!
In a separate thread,Platt recently wrote that atoms are aware, and I
commented:
>> They are? Boy do I feel dumb. I just finished argueing they don't exist,
and
now I find they have awareness.>>
Bo leaped in:
<<Platt will certainly answer for himself, but I think you
misunderstood him a little. These are subtle points but the
"fundamental consciousness" is IMHO something that pervades all
existence; another name for Quality! During our first wrestling with
this elusive topic I uttered something like: "Everything is mind
(consciousness/awareness) or nothing is". I am convinced that Platt
did not mean an intellectual matter particle, but more in Magnus'
sense; each value level is the "observer/creator" of its
corresponding reality (to which you commented):>>>
To which Platt added:
<<But there's more in Bo's post. In answering an inquiry from Roger, Bo
made a beautiful cut with his own MOQ knife:……….. Right on, Bo. A clean cut.>>
There is the knife analogy again. If this keeps up, we can be shooting down
falsehoods and blasting The SOB SOMers soon. And Nuking thoughts that ask for
clarification. Good thing I got life insurance.
Bo was right in perceiving the humor in my request (and in my current
exaggerated defensiveness…..SMOOCH) . The point was to gain some insight
into the reasoning behind this. Truth be told, I am still a bit fuzzy on what
you wrote, but if it is what I think I am reading into it then I think it is
along these lines that I quoted from Nishida:
<<The so-called objective world is not apart from our phenomena of
consciousness. Rather, it consists of these phenomena unified by a kind of
unifying activity. When the phenomena are universal--when a unity
transcendent of the limited, individual consciousness is maintained--we regard
them as constituting an independent objective world.>>
More discussion would be appreciated. But no sharp objects allowed!
ROGER
The rusty ol’ blade from SOM land
PS I am being very facetious in my fiegned injury. Behind my humor though is
the fact that it is the truth that is being injured here, not Struan or me or
Bo or Platt or David or Magnus. We can take the friction of the Squad degraded
down to social cliques and defensive language ( and those classic compliments
to one person that are intended as subtle insults to anyone with a different
perspective)......but can the intellectual freedom that we need to advance
handle it?
MOQ Homepage - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:50 BST