Struan and all: So a professor is a bigger deal in England, eh? But
Struan does teach philosophy and ethics, right? Ok, that's done.
I think Struan's Sunday post was a ridiculous over-reaction. It was
almost entirely dedicated to uncovering my evil tactics and only threw
in a few crumbs of philosophy. It was filled with heat but shed no
light. Almost every sentence included some kind of personal insult. On a
single page Struan says...
1. my behaviour shouldn't be allowed or tolerated
2. it debase the whole forum
3. I'm a liar
4. I thrive on complete misrepresentation
5. I always re-invent others' positions
6. My questions are badly phrased and distorting
7. I'm dishonest
8. My misquote is utterly stupid
9. I need to learn to read what people say
10. I lack integrity and thought
And ironically, Struan ends his thoroughly dis-courteous attack by
asking Horse if MY conduct is against the "rules".
In spite of all the abuse, I'm sticking with my orignal assertion; that
Struan's claims about empiriciam are not correct. On Tuesday he included
just one thought concerning empiricism and that was also incorrect. He
said, "With regard to non-biological senses and empiricism,
consciousness is sufficient to establish my point, although there are
others. I would be surprised if there's contention here."
PREPARE TO BE SURPRIZED !!
Based on the statement, it seems Struan is saying consciousness is a
non-biological sense. Is that right? There's not that much to go on, but
it seems that's his point. I'm trying to be careful here. It does seem
to co-incide with the previous statement he made on Sunday, when Struan
said "the specific accusation that mainstream empiricits admit only to
verifiability by the biological senses, is quite wrong".
My Oxford Companion to Philosophy says "An idea is empirical if it is
derived ultimatley from the five senses, to which introspection is
sometimes added." It also says that empiricism is "Any view which bases
our knowledge, or the material from which it is constructed, on
experience through the traditional five senses." And it describes their
view in terms of the famous "tabula rasa". It says that "This gives the
picture of the mind as a blank tablet on which information is imprinted
by the senses in the form of sense data." As I said, I encourage
everyone to check their own sources on this issue. Don't take my word
for it.
I hope this answers David Lind's questions too. It easy to see that
empiricism wouldn't have much respect for the "energy" transmitted in
your acting class. But please don't mistake me for Locke or Hume.
Personally, I think experience goes way beyond the five senses, or
however many there are now. I also think it very rarely makes sense to
imagine the mind as a blank slate.
Based on the Oxford definitions, I think anyone can see that "the
specific accusation that mainstream empiricists admit only to
verifiabliity by the biological senses, is quite" right. Further,
Struan's attempt to construe consciousness as a non-biological sense
confuses subject and object, it mixes up the observer and the observed.
It's like saying that the blank tablet itself is a source of sense data
rather than the receptor of that data. To be fair, classical empiricism
does admit that the sense data is processed and shaped by the mind, but
without the biological sense experience consciousness would have no
content.
Struan? I wonder if you'd care to try again. Don't you think a sense of
fair-play, a sense of proportion, a sense of humor and maybe even a
sense of decency ought to be included in our discussions? Obvioulsy, I'm
not talking about empiricism here, just our personal conduct. I mean,
you could object and disagree just as forcefully without all the abuse,
don't you think? I disagree with something every time I post here, but
only rarely get such an emotional reaction. If it upsets you so much to
be contradicted, maybe you should consider a less confrontational
past-time or a more solitary hobby. So what if I think you're wrong
about something?C'mon, admit it. You're not concerned with my real
intentions, accuracy or integrity, you're just throwing insults around
because you're angry.
DMB
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