From: Mari (mld2001@adelphia.net)
Date: Fri Jan 17 2003 - 17:02:23 GMT
> First off yesterday after using the example of
> what *really* causes colds I had this sent to
> me, thought it was funny and synchronistic (Glenn read
> coincidental)..
>
> ----Russians love their cold drinks hot and they are
> suspicious of ice in drinks, they believe it causes colds and
> infections. The explanation for this was that during the soviet era the
> government didn't want to encourage people to want fridges because of
> the drain such goods would be on miltary factory production so they
> started teaching people after the war that ice and cold things made you
> sick and caused colds and throat problems.
> The russians like their coke warm and even ladies living in US like to
warm
> their coke and their orange juice in the microwave first. One lady
> reported that her first year in US she would not believe that ice was
> safe. By end of second year she was an ice user herself. When she
> returned to St Petersburg for a holiday she was in a hotel they served
> her coke warm in a glass. She asked for ice cubes. The ice cubes were
> brought to her by a puzzled waiter on plate!
Mari says: Like so many "stories" this one has a number of ways of seeing
it. One of the things that jumped out at me was the *change* that occured:
the girls beliefs kept her from *enjoying* the object: a cold drink made
cold with ice ( not stated is the fact as all drinkers of cold beverages
know: cold is different with ice than cold without ice ).
i know that the "subject" of the story is: a new **real** cause of
colds --Russian ice!
It's a story that can be analyzed with an intent to decipher more than one
subject/objective/objective: primary and secondary aspect/pov. In the end
whatever we wind up with is uniquely ours which leads to your next
paragraph.
From your words i deduct that what Rudy and i wrote "touched" in a manner of
speaking something *in* you....started your mind moving ( remember that koan
i posted a few days ago? mind moves) You chose words that are interestingly
ironic or at least have a curious juxtaposition as i see them: "very
enlightening" "endarkened again" "the joys of moq discussions"
i can say for myself that those words/word groups can *work* for me too;
they fit the puzzle when assembled a particular way. How "like" your
thoughts and ideas are to mine is another whole story in and of it self i
would think and i'm pretty sure you'd agree.
Now that i said that i'll add this question: how well do we ever get to
"know" an other person ( someONEelse ) let alone "understanding" them.
There's a part of me that would like to meet the MoQers face to face in
Person.
i'd love to go to The Netherlands.....any proposals? ; )
In referrence to:
> Is MOQ a private tool and SOM a public tool?
i watch myself looking at the screen, i watch my mind move as i read the
question(s)
i want to ask: why do you want to know that? Could you see that the answers
to those questions very possibly could be as varied, as deep, scholarly and
time consuming as many of the other philosophical beliefs in the MoQdg? That
would instigate more of the same of what we alread have which as i see it
fans the mobile.
i struggle at time trying to figure out why this is....i guess it depend on
the glasses i'm wearing at the time so it is relative....isn't that the
truth most of the time Erin.....it's the glasses we're wearing? ;-)
i have my own ideas why we humans have a need to validate our beliefs with
someone elses beliefs. It is at least in part prerequisite to the social
level. To ask the question as you did above is in a way looking for
validation and i want to know if you see it that way at all?
So to answer: "Is MOQ a private tool and SOM a public tool?
The "Is....." part of the question suggests/implies to me (begs the
question as Matt might say) if it "IS Not (the opposite is 'true'
" then what? What would knowing the answer to that question mean to me now
in the moment when i "find out" and then: there-after? How long is
"there-after" anyway??? What would someones opinon about that question mean
to you? Is there a T/F check sheet somewhere out there that
validates our answer making one more right than another? i don't think that
there is a yes/no right/wrong public/private Truth sheet that makes one
answer better than another except perhaps that things move. move is change,
even standing still is movement when considering the ALL.
*Change* happens because.....like the example i gave when talking about my
"art" : sometimes i see things that i didn't even know was there when "i
created" it. If it can be agreed on some level that "i created IT" then ask:
how is it that i "didn't know" that i created " it" and admit that it IS
"something else"; then it's possible to see how public/private is dynamic
and moves around, probably back and forth in a pattern
Moreover, how is it that someone other than "i" can "create" something "in,
out, about, around, with, with-in etc" "my work". How does "my work" become
"theirs" ( others, elses ) permission may have nothing to do with it.....it
is "out there" it is in the "public" domain. It is mine with-in the limits
that are mine as they are chaning and all.
" 'Beauty' is in the eye of the beholder" What you see is what you get. It
is yours. It is mine. It is not yours and it is not mine. ( i really like
the picture i get in my mind when i think of " is Not mine " ( a negative to
affirm a truism )
Sometimes Erin it all appears so clear....then the fog rolls in and if it
wasn't for the gravity of the ISNESS.....well, you know.....
>
> Second i like Mari and Rudy's very enlightening but
> trying to synthesize what i like about them
> feel endarkened again...the joys of moq discussions
>
>
> If understanding of quality is private then shouldn't
> Pirsig's works be used as a private tool?
>
> Is MOQ a private tool and SOM a public tool?
>
>
> Erin
Can MoQ help me avoid a cold and or cure one quickly if i get one.
i have a recipe for a "HOT TOTTY" that fixx's more than just colds ; )
i also know a few placebo's that work a similar practical magic.
Maybe if we named the particular matter which we would like MoQ to be
applied to.....for instance: a clearly defined map that will lead to "do
process". Meaning "getting things done" ( to work under most circumstance )
TY'M
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