Re: MD On Faith

From: David Morey (
Date: Mon Oct 11 2004 - 18:38:11 BST

  • Next message: David Morey: "Re: MD A bit of reasoning"

    > > It is only in memory of these tragedies that a scientific outlook
    > > can avoid & resist the temptation to lose contact with the humanity it
    needs to inspire rather than obscure.
    > What tragedies are we talking about here. I'm aware that _technology_ has
    > misused over and over again but this is not the point I'm making. Science
    as a belief
    > system has not instigated violence against those that do not accept its
    beliefs. Religion
    > has and continues to do so. Scientists have not burned people at the stake
    for heresy or
    > tortured people in order to convert them to their system of beliefs.

    Well it depends on how far you want to associate science with secular
    forms of government and society that are on occassions violent, etc.
    Also there is the link between science and authority and control and
    defining normal
    as described by Foucault and experienced by Pirsig as ECT. Do not
    misunderstand me,
    I am pro-science, but not rosy-tinted pro. Also maybe the excessive
    violence of
    any system of belief occurs when it has to defend itsself, and to date
    has been without challenge. I think it is due a number of challenges, that
    full human flourishing will need to go hand in hand with a re-enchantment of
    the cosmos
    and this would require a very different sort of science, one that recognised
    DQ as much as SQ
    I would suggest.

    > > But can science inspire humanity? Does it deliver community and shared
    > Has religion inspired humanity or just scared them shitless? Science can
    and does inspire people (as opposed to humanity).
    > You may disagree with them or their beliefs safe in the knowledge that the
    equivalent of
    > the Inquisition won't be breaking down your door and requesting that you
    either do
    > otherwise or they'll hand you your liver for closer inspection!
    > Science delivers community and shared values within the scientific belief

    I see your point, nut maybe things are more subtle now, that people with
    challenging beliefs just don't get the jobs, eg Pirsig with his awkward

    > > Or does it deliver techno-fantasies where people live in luxurious
    > > Where more & more adults seem to be more & more like children?
    > Not sure what you mean by this exactly. Is there something wrong with
    enjoying the
    > benefits that science has provided. I and the majority of people on this
    list are alive due
    > to the benefits science has delivered. I just wish that more people could
    enjoy these
    > benefits. I agree that sometimes scientists can run off at the mouth about
    their pet
    > projects but so what - you don't have to believe them or even listen to
    them. I seriously
    > doubt they will threayen you with visions of eternal damnation if you do
    so. Even the
    > more fundamental variety of scientist.
    > And what are these luxurious house-prisons you refer to. I don't know
    any - the only
    > house prisons that I know of are due to peoples fear of violence. What's
    this got to do
    > with science.

    Well science makes possible these attempts of people to cut themselves off
    from social chaos, violence, etc. It seems an odd form of utopia where we
    fear each other and try to live on isolated islands. Don't you think we have
    our common life?

    > > Unless perhaps we can find that human beings have got more in common
    > > something like DQ than well made mechanisms.
    > Can't we have both? A well made mechanism, such as a motorcycle, and it's
    use can
    > lead to high volumes of DQ. Wasn't there a book about it? ;^)

    Yes that's the goal, using technology to deliver more DQ, but are we doing
    that at the moment?

    thanks for your thoughts...
    David M

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