Re: MD is god real?

From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Tue Oct 19 2004 - 18:11:07 BST

  • Next message: Jim Ledbury: "Re: MD On Faith"

    quality is the unity term of course.
    But how do we get SQ and DQ from quality?
    I think we need to think about the difference
    between the infinite and finite. SQ is at any given moment
    finite. SQ however gets added to by DQ. DQ is therefore
    infinite, infinite potential, full of potential patterns, able to pour out
    all the SQ
    needed whenever it is needed. But why is the world not just a pouring
    forth of patterns, never repeating, always new, a cosmic firework,
    perhaps flashing out all forms and then dis-emerging them all.
    But that is not our cosmos. Patterns endure and repeat and evolve.
    Perhaps complexity is not the end of evolution but the beginning.
    The infinite is very complex. Finite cosmos is less complex.
    What we may mean by Being in the finite cosmos (at any moment)
    may be the absence of infinity. The withdrawal of infinity makes the finite
    possible. In a finite cosmos patterns repeat, they cease to be dynamic.
    In some way SQ is the withdrawl of DQ. DQ could move in all
    directions at once, but instead moves in only one. Hence the world
    seems to be full of SQ, almost mechanical, i.e. lacking agency.
    In some sense god is that larger whole of the potential that does not
    occur or become real, god is beyond the real, the reality of god is god's
    clear absence and withdrawal from our cosmos, therefore expect no proof
    or sight of god. Yet here we are, there is something rather than nothing.
    Nothing has withdrawn!

    David Morey

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:07 PM
    Subject: Re: MD is god real?

    > Ok, I'll play...
    >
    > In what way(s) is God different from Pirsig's Quality?
    >
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
    > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
    > Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    >
    >
    > "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
    > everything." -- Henri Poincare'
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > On 18 Oct 2004 at 19:28, David Morey wrote:
    >
    > Good start but pretty easy...
    > God is that which underlies all definition.
    >
    > regards
    > DM
    >
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Chuck Roghair" <ctr@pacificpartssales.com>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 5:20 PM
    > Subject: RE: MD is god real?
    >
    >
    >> Define "God."
    >>
    >> -----Original Message-----
    >> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
    >> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk] On Behalf Of David Morey
    >> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 3:29 AM To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >> Subject: Re: MD is god real?
    >>
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> I like this challenge, I think the reality
    >> of god is unavoidable. Let's have your questions...
    >>
    >> DM
    >>
    >>
    >> ----- Original Message -----
    >> From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    >> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 3:28 AM
    >> Subject: Re: MD On Faith
    >>
    >>
    >>> Geez, Ian. What's got your knickers in a twist?
    >>>
    >>> I'm confused by your message below because your reference to my
    >>> "preaching" and "all you Christians" seem to be directed at me.
    >>> Not only am I not a Christian, I'm not even a theist. I'm not an
    >>> atheist or agnostic, either. I guess I'm sort of hyperagnostic in
    >>> that I don't even understand what it is I'm supposed to believe in
    >>> or not believe in.
    >>>
    >>> On the other hand, I'm not sure I understand your vehemence toward
    >>> people discussing ideas of faith here, as they very often revolve
    >>> around ideas in the MOQ. If these discussions upset you, can't
    > you
    >>> just set your mail reader to filter them out?
    >>>
    >>> My experience in life, so far, is that even people who claim to
    >>> belive in God, if asked enough questions, reveal an ignorance
    >>> similar if not identical to my own. It could very well be that
    >>> Scott and Sam and others who offer their ideas here will be able
    > to
    >>> show me otherwise, and I appreciate the opportunity to hear them.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Regards,
    >>> Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    >>> --
    >>> InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    >>> Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since
    > 1983
    >>> Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    >>>
    >>> "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash
    > is
    >>> everything." -- Henri Poincare'
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> On 14 Oct 2004 at 13:32, Ian Glendinning wrote:
    >>>
    >>> As to your point aimed at me - "bad logic" ???
    >>> In the real world logic is bad full stop - has been my consistent
    >>> thesis for several years. Don't start preaching to me.
    >>>
    >>> Unfortunately for all you Christians, the sanctimonious B**s
    >>> currently leading our nations both declare their faith in your
    > god.
    >>> I'm neutral on this as I've declared constantly. I prefer reality -
    >
    >>> the MoQ or thought patterns of that ilk. I avoid your mystical god
    >>> and Dawkins' god of objective scientific logic with equal passion.
    >>>
    >>> That will include avoiding this MoQ discussion board in future if
    >>> the reliogious zealots don't leave off posting their religious
    >>> claptrap at every opportunity. There are plenty of other
    > discussion
    >>> forums where we can get that.
    >>>
    >>> Ian
    >>>
    >>> ----- Original Message -----
    >>> From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
    >>> To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >>> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 3:30 PM
    >>> Subject: RE: MD On Faith
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> > Hi all,
    >>> >
    >>> > You may remember a while back that DMB and I were trying to
    >>> convince
    >>> > someone (Ian, I think) that bad logic can be very dangerous in
    >>> > the real world. Take a look at the following line of reasoning:
    >>> >
    >>> > "Dawkins supports a belief system which denies the existence of
    >>> God.
    >>> > Communism and humanism are belief systems that also deny the
    >>> > existence of God. Godless belief systems have slaughtered
    >>> > millions to impose their belief systems on others. ... That's
    > why
    >>> > I objected to Dawkins' sanctimonious support of his pagan belief
    >>> > system."
    >>> >
    >>> > msh says:
    >>> > Now, imagine a world in which people who reason in this way
    >>> actually
    >>> > have political and military power.
    >>> >
    >>> > Actually, sadly, it's not hard to imagine...
    >>> >
    >>> > Best,
    >>> > msh
    >>> > --
    >>> > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    >>> > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since
    >>> > 1983 Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
    >>> >
    >>> > "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash
    >>> > is everything." -- Henri Poincare'
    >>> >
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    >>> Mail Archives:
    >>> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    >>> Nov '02 Onward -
    >> http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    >>> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >>>
    >>> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    >>> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    >> Mail Archives:
    >> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    >> Nov '02 Onward -
    >> http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD
    > Queries
    >> - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >>
    >> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    >> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    >> Mail Archives:
    >> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    >> Nov '02 Onward -
    >> http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD
    > Queries
    >> - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >>
    >> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    >> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/ Nov
    > '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html MD Queries -
    >
    > horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    > Mail Archives:
    > Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    > Nov '02 Onward -
    > http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
    >
    > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
    >

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Oct 19 2004 - 21:30:44 BST