Re: MD is god real?

From: Scott Roberts (
Date: Thu Oct 21 2004 - 16:30:51 BST

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    > My belief in the reality of Quality derives form the absurdity of a
    > world without it, as Pirsig so clearly shows in ZMM.
    > So, my question here is: How would a world, devoid of Quality, be
    > different from a world devoid of God? Please be as specific as
    > possible.
    > Scott Roberts, if you are reading along, I'd be interested in your
    > response to this question, just substitute "disembodied
    > consciousness" for "God."

    My response is that there is no difference, in that a world devoid of
    disembodied consciousness implies a world devoid of Quality, and
    vice-versa. That is, to say that value is omnipresent implies that
    consciousness and intellect are omnipresent, since value implies
    appreciation of value and comparisons of value (a sense of better and
    worse). The phrase "B values pre-condition A" is meaningless unless A is
    appreciated, and that there is a preference for A over C, D, etc (or over
    not-A). This implies the use of memory. To operate in a system like this
    (as is implied in the phrase "static pattern of value") is to operate in a
    system of ideas. Since it certainly doesn't appear that rocks and such are
    thinking or valuing, and since one can't sense an idea, one must locate
    this consciousness and intellect, like Quality, outside the world of our
    senses (that's a crude way to put it, but nevermind for now). The tricky
    part is to avoid putting an S/O form over this conception, but that is
    probably just a limitation of our current intellects. This, it seems to me,
    is why folks have trouble accepting it. The assumption that words like
    'appreciation', 'intellect', and 'idea' should be restricted to humans, is
    a SOM assumption, just as is the assumption that value is subjective.

    - Scott

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