Re: MD On Faith

From: Erin (macavity11@yahoo.com)
Date: Wed Oct 27 2004 - 19:02:01 BST

  • Next message: Mark Steven Heyman: "Re: MD On Faith"

    Hi,
    I enjoyed your answer, give it an A for creativity, and an A for argument that we directly experience Quality. Problem is I have always been sold on that idea, that's why I am here;-) I just don't see anything that warrants the empirical label-- I swear I looked hard..
    Does saying experience seem less to you than saying empirical experience-- i am trying to figure out why that empirical has to be added, especially since it violates the definition.
    I experience Quality, and don't care if experiencing it falls outside empirical measurements, do you?
     
     
    Erin

    Mark Steven Heyman <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com> wrote:
    Hi Erin,

    On 26 Oct 2004 at 22:49, Erin wrote:

    All sounds reasonable but I never thought the empirical label applied
    to the resurrection.

    msh says:
    I know. I used that example in response to the nonsense (presented
    elsewhere in this thread) that empiricism requires us to believe in
    resurrection because someone says they've experienced it.

    erin:
    I was trying to understand if it really applied to Quality/values.
    Would you do this reasoning step-by-step for empirical evidence for
    Quality/values the way you did it for no empirical evidence for the
    resurrection.

    msh says:
    I'll try. When you pick the pair of shoes that don't give you
    blisters, you are making your decision based on your experience of
    Quality. To use an example offered by Pirsig, when you decide to
    hang a painting rather than look at the bare wall, your decision is
    rooted in your perception that the painting is of higher artistic
    quality than the unadorned wall.

    Or take a look at the following verses:

    Mary had a little lamb,
    Little lamb, little lamb,
    Mary had a little lamb,
    Its fleece was white as snow
    And everywhere that Mary went,
    Mary went, Mary went,
    Everywhere that Mary went
    The lamb was sure to go

    Indelicate is he who loathes
    The aspect of his fleshy clothes,
    The flying fabric stitched on bone,
    The vesture of the skeleton,
    The garment neither fur nor hair,
    The cloak of evil and despair,
    The veil long violated by
    Caresses of the hand and eye.

    When you decide the second is better poetry, your decision is based
    upon your perception of Quality. I think all of these examples, and
    countless others you encounter every day, are your direct experiences
    of Quality, so that Quality may be said to be an empirical reality.

    Now, if you are looking for a Quality Meter that detects quality the
    way a Geiger Counter detects radiation, I'm afraid there is no such
    device. However, we don't need a Quality Meter to experience
    Quality any more than we need a Geiger Counter to experience
    radiation.

    Best,
    Mark (sh)

    InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
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