Scott; Re: MD New Level of Thinking

Date: Wed Dec 01 2004 - 21:25:22 GMT

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    [Scott:] Don't ignore my qualifier "with respect to DQ". Intellect, as the fourth level is, of course, superior to the other three levels, and Pirsig clearly enjoys exercising his intellect. So do we all. But then, in the hot stove example, he talks of intellectuals as perhaps being slower to get off the hot stove than mystics, and in general, he thinks of intellect as covering up DQ. Look at how apologetic he is about doing metaphysics, in view of the (supposedly) negative view mystics take about metaphysics. My view (which is heretical) is that intellect works *as* DQ/SQ interaction, that the universe that the MOQ describes as DQ and SQ is recapitulated in a limited way in our intellect. It is also not the case that the supposedly anti-metaphysical stand of mystics is universal. I would describe Plotinus, for example, as a mystic who wrote metaphysically

    This was sent by mistake from work, as a reply to myself at home, but managed to be posted as a reply on the forum under antoher subject.

    Hi Scott,

    Plotinus was an intellectual. He derived his intellect from both the mystic and metaphysics. He didn't lend himself only to the mystical or metaphysical. When we speak in terms of intellect, we don't limit ourselves to metaphysics, or science.

    So what you really mean is that Pirsig treats science negatively, in that he doesn't make science (metaphysics) the highest intellectual value(?)

    Recapitulation cannot happen in a "limited way," but what you are saying does hold true. The intellect, the complete intellect does describe DQ and SQ, but DQ/SQ do not depend on description. Quality is still there whether you know it to be there or not. If Quality is born in us, found metaphysically (learned), mystically (thrust upon us) it is still there independent of our intellect.

    Quality is also found in our social patterns. The question would be "Is our social pattern high or low Quality." This can be answered in a "limited way" by our intellect, but the intellect does not create the Quality experience or event that changes our lives. It was there for the intellect to find. This can be done metaphysically or mystically. It can also be found in the wrong terms, metaphysically or mystically.

    It seems to me that Pirsig leans more toward metaphysics over mystic, and yes, intellect over social.

    Would you not agree?


    I just thought it important that you got this, as I would like to better understand what Pirsig meant by the 'Intellect' as well.



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