RE: MD The Quality of Capitalism?

From: David Buchanan (
Date: Sat Dec 11 2004 - 19:38:46 GMT

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    Platt, MSH, All:

    "That's what neither the socialists nor the capitalists ever got figured
    out. From a static point of view socialism is more moral than capitalism.
    It's a higher form of evolution. It is an intellectually guided society,
    not just a society that is guided by mindless traditions. That's what
    gives socialism its drive. But what the socialists left out and what has
    all but killed their whole undertaking is an absence of a concept of
    indefinite Dynamic Quality..."

    Platt said:
    This passage, contrary to MSH's claims, 1) addresses the "Quality of
    Capitalism," 2) addresses the real-world question of whether existing
    free-market systems respond to DQ and 3) proves it wasn't ever
    "misinterpreted" by me.

    dmb says:
    No, it only proves that this is the passage you've misinterpreted. First of
    all, you give capitalism the edge for its dynamism when Pirsig is clearly
    saying that neither had the metaphysical tools to understand the nature of
    that force. You forget that capitalism is only INADVERTANTLY correct.
    Pirsig's point here is to explain why capitalist systems preform better and
    that reason is UNKNOWN to the capitalists and have include only as a lucky
    mistake. Secondly, you almosts always ignore or discount Pirsig's repeated
    assertions that capitalism is morally inferior to socialism and that it is
    at an entirely different and less evolved level of quality. And finally,
    there is the problem of ignoring the real world effects of capitalism. Not
    only is authority and power concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, but
    corporations have enormous influence over our laws and elections, very often
    achieveing policiies that benefit themselves at the expense of the American
    people. The current administration has taken crony capitalism to new lows,
    even appointing industry insiders as the chief watchdog of those same
    industries. This is very close to fascism as the founder defined it. That's
    why Chomsky seems so contemptuous of the free-market faithful. Such
    believers insist that we are all liberated by the power to shop, but the
    facts on the ground tell us the opposite story.

    And don't even get me started on advertising and propaganda. One need not be
    an elitist to see that the Public Relations gurus can play the public like a
    fiddle. They have tapped into Frued and Jung and have developed techniques
    to which nobody is immune. And that's really what we have. Its not
    capitalism. Its consumerism. Chomp, Chomp, Gobble, til its all gone. You
    know the problem with unsustainable systems? That's right, they can't be

    In the marketplace of ideas, this only two cents worth.

    Mostly I just wanted msh to know that I see it too. Platt is reading it
    wrong, as usual.



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