RE: MD The Quality of Capitalism?

From: Platt Holden (
Date: Sun Dec 12 2004 - 22:33:30 GMT

  • Next message: David Buchanan: "RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    DMB, MSH, All:

    > dmb says:
    > No, it only proves that this is the passage you've misinterpreted. First of
    > all, you give capitalism the edge for its dynamism when Pirsig is clearly
    > saying that neither had the metaphysical tools to understand the nature of
    > that force. You forget that capitalism is only INADVERTANTLY correct.

    You can shout INADVERTENTLY until you're blue in the face, but that
    doesn't change the fact that capitalism is morally superior because it's
    more Dynamic.

    > Pirsig's point here is to explain why capitalist systems preform better and
    > that reason is UNKNOWN to the capitalists and have include only as a lucky
    > mistake.

    You can shout UNKNOWN and lucky mistake to the capitalists until the cows
    come home, but that doesn't change the fact capitalism is a better
    economic system because it's more Dynamic..

    > Secondly, you almosts always ignore or discount Pirsig's repeated
    > assertions that capitalism is morally inferior to socialism and that it is
    > at an entirely different and less evolved level of quality.

    As Pirsig says, because capitalism is more Dynamic than socialism, it is
    morally superior to socialism and at a higher evolved level of quality,
    the level of Dynamic morality.

    > And finally,
    > there is the problem of ignoring the real world effects of capitalism. Not
    > only is authority and power concentrated in fewer and fewer hands, but
    > corporations have enormous influence over our laws and elections, very
    > often achieveing policiies that benefit themselves at the expense of the
    > American people. The current administration has taken crony capitalism to
    > new lows, even appointing industry insiders as the chief watchdog of those
    > same industries. This is very close to fascism as the founder defined it.
    > That's why Chomsky seems so contemptuous of the free-market faithful. Such
    > believers insist that we are all liberated by the power to shop, but the
    > facts on the ground tell us the opposite story.

    That's just left-wing dogma. I'll take Pirsig over Chomsky and his fellow
    anti-capitalists as to what is real and what isn't any day.
    > And don't even get me started on advertising and propaganda. One need not
    > be an elitist to see that the Public Relations gurus can play the public
    > like a fiddle. They have tapped into Frued and Jung and have developed
    > techniques to which nobody is immune. And that's really what we have. Its
    > not capitalism. Its consumerism. Chomp, Chomp, Gobble, til its all gone.
    > You know the problem with unsustainable systems? That's right, they can't
    > be sustained.

    Yes, I know. You liberals believe the public can be played "like a fiddle"
    because they're too dumb to know what's good for them. It was this, your
    arrogance, as much as anything that led to your ignominious defeat in the
    recent election, and why you are now looking at chicken entrails in an
    attempt to figure out how you can regain power. With luck, your role
    models Michael Moore, George Soros and Howard Dean will prevail in taking
    over the Democrat party, assuring your continued dwelling in the
    wilderness for another generation.


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