From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sun Dec 12 2004 - 06:09:50 GMT
msh) -- In reality, competition produces redundancy, not efficiency. I mean,
do we really need 25 different brands of deodorant? One of the
reason people are put off by advertising is that it is rarely about
the quality of a product: it's about trying to persuade people to
choose one of 25 functionally identical products. So, in car adds,
we see cars climbing waterfalls and mountains and rainbows; we see
cars full of young, happy, sexy, energetic people who's lives have
finally been made perfect because they decided on a Chevy not a Ford.
Is this really the highest quality use of the public airwaves?
Chin) -- You are beginning to speak my language now. How much value does
advertising add to efficiency? Competition is good for DQ, as it forces
advances, but the productivity of a nation does not come from a capitalist
system (if I have my meanings right on this).
Something that has been bothering me on this is that since 1945 we have
become more a socialistic nation in that the Gov has had more control over
the capitalists (US), and since 1945, even in real (inflation adjusted)
terms, the economy has grown by leaps and bounds compared to the years prior
to 1945.
Just for clarity, I am not calling us a socialist society, just more
socialist than before 1945.
Chin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <markheyman@infoproconsulting.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: MD The Quality of Capitalism?
> Hi Platt, dmb, all
>
> I and others have dismantled Platt's interpretation of his favorite
> Pirsig quote so many times, I'll just refer everyone to the archives.
>
> The reason I've chosen to pick on so called Capitalism in this thread
> is that this economic model is the de facto standard in the west;
> it's the one we appear to be stuck with for now, for better or for
> worse. But I really want to get away from the capitalism-good
> socialism-bad simplicities and try to explore ways in which we can
> move toward a higher quality economic solution than either has so far
> been able to offer.
>
> About the so called free-market system, profit-driven, competition-
> based, I believe Pirsig is correct in the same way that Adam Smith is
> correct: On paper, it sounds like a good idea. But the following
> two paragraphs offer a couple of talking points for us to consider.
>
> In reality, competition produces redundancy, not efficiency. I mean,
> do we really need 25 different brands of deodorant? One of the
> reason people are put off by advertising is that it is rarely about
> the quality of a product: it's about trying to persuade people to
> choose one of 25 functionally identical products. So, in car adds,
> we see cars climbing waterfalls and mountains and rainbows; we see
> cars full of young, happy, sexy, energetic people who's lives have
> finally been made perfect because they decided on a Chevy not a Ford.
> Is this really the highest quality use of the public airwaves?
>
> In reality, maximization of profits doesn't produce quality, it
> results in a race to the bottom: Why produce a high quality light
> bulb that will last for 50 years when it's more profitable to have
> them burn out in a month or two? Why make a printer that will run
> for years on a single supply of toner, when so much profit can be
> made selling lots of toner?
>
> Finally, I would like to address one of Platt's comments:
>
> platt:
> I find no good reason to "step outside the MOQ" since Pirsig is
> obviously talking about the "real world," not some imaginary
> Never-Never Land.
>
> msh says:
> How do we know he's talking about the real world if we don't check?
> It seems strange to suggest that we don't need to "step outside the
> MOQ" in order to evaluate whether or not the existing so-called free
> market system is really all that free or dynamic or high quality. Do
> we really think that Pirsig, the rational empiricist, expects us to
> evaluate and perhaps utilize the MOQ by endlessly dissecting and
> discussing it in some vacuum-sealed environment?
>
> Thanks to all for any thoughtful contributions.
>
> Best,
> Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
> --
> InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
> Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
> Web Site: http://www.infoproconsulting.com
>
> "Thought is only a flash between two long nights, but this flash is
> everything." -- Henri Poincare'
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archives:
> Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> Nov '02 Onward -
http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
>
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archives:
Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Sun Dec 12 2004 - 06:25:11 GMT