From: Arlo J. Bensinger (ajb102@psu.edu)
Date: Thu Dec 16 2004 - 05:12:59 GMT
Hi Dan,
Hope you caught Chin's post about "the eyes of a child". :-)
Although I think you were being too modest... your youth seems to be no
hinderence to you at all.
Dan asks:
Well, why do some countries have more liberal restrictions and seem to live
alright??? In other words, why do Europeans give their children a glass of
wine for dinner yet in the US we have to be 21? What are they doing that we
aren't? Is it that we sensationalize things to support profits, or as Arlo
mentioned, put the fear into public information and then claim, "The USG will
make it better by placing laws and restrictions and allowing only selected
companies to sell ...(drugs)? All the while the politicians line their pockets
from lobbyists.
I reply:
The answer to the first part is simply that Americal morality is not a product
of Intellect, it is a product of Victorian morality. The current elections
reified this, and Victorian morality, and its use of fear to justify itself, is
coming back stronger each day. But, you are wise to question the ulterior
motives of conservatives and business interests who profit of the continued
illegality of a substance. Many, many times you will see that those that profit
of something being illegal will spand millions upon millions to lobby for that
something to remain illegal.
The entire history of marijuana legislation is an odd blend of anti-hispanic
rascism and woodpulp-to-paper financial intersts in this company. The paper
giants, having invested huge amounts of money in machines to produce paper out
of woodpulp realized that hemp produced a cheaper and more efficient paper than
wood. Unlike Platt's dreamed up model where business would adapt, these paper
interests (i think dupont was one, but i'd have to go and look) sunk millions
into anti-marijuana legislation proposed by a rascist California governor
(maybe a senator, its been a while since I've looked).
The Dupont's made a fortune off papermills, and we get a guy with glaucoma who
is tossed in jail if he grows some pot to ease his pain.
Dan asked:
I'll ask you - What is so wrong with marijuana that it has to be made illegal?
Besides the fact that the USG cannot make profits from it because anyone can
grow it.
I say:
Nothing that I can think of.
Dan asks:
And alcohol doesn't contribute to bad patterns and other drugs too?!?! The
first thing I ever did was divulge in beer.
I say:
Careful, you are asking questions based on Intellectual observation and not on
blindly reifying static social patterns. :-)
Dan answers Platt:
I think what Arlo was talking about is the cost to consumers for prescription
drugs (too). Especially after the latest scandal involving Viaox. What a sham
that is. Makes me wonder how many more drugs that should have never been
approved are on the market - for the sole reason to make money!. In addition,
how much money from drug manufactures go to political campaigns?
Dan states:
I am not against making money. But when the facts are skewed or the
information presented is meant to cause fear if you don't buy this certain
product then, YES, I am against making money off of fear tactics. When it comes
to campaign contributions I believe that a company, billionaire, the
blue-collar worker, etc should sponsor their candidate because they believe in
the candidates' direction. I do not think these entities should sponsor a
candidate because, once they do that candidate will owe them something -
which could reflect negatively on DQ or human rights and which is a conflict
of public interest. As a public official you represent THE PEOPLE...NOT
yourself! And when you give in to lobbyists then what am I, the average
citizen, supposed to think? That Enron's slap on the wrist that cost millions
is OK because my president says it is?
I say:
Dan, you should definately move this question over to the Capitalism thread.
Only because I am not sure if Sam or Mark are reading this thread, and you'll
benefit greatly from their dialogue. I've been meaning to finalize a post to
that thread for a while. Maybe this is a good place to jump...
Dan says:
What I was trying to get at is that, NO, we don't teach gang members to be gang
members. But if anyone tells me that the prevalence of drugs in poorer
neighborhoods is "by chance" and the "more fortunate" have nothing to do with
it then someone is on something...and it ain't me!!!The USA has become, and has
actually always been, a very judgmental country. You can do it your own way in
America...as long as it's done how I say!!! I see Christians, Politicians,
and all kinds not give a second to talk to a black man in the ghetto. We (the
"more fortunate") label them criminals, thieves, drug addicts, etc...and
preach that we are the most humanitarian nation in the world. Yet, we stay
away from "that part of town" because of "those kinds of people". Yet, what if
you talked with one of "those people" and discovered they were highly
intellectual? What if they were just people that have always been faced with
low Quality Static Patterns? And please don't give the "everyone has a chance"
BS.
I say:
Dead on, Dan (or "spot on", as the British say). But Platt is a social
darwinist. He'll tell you that the poor are poor because they are lazy, and
that they should just move somewhere and get a job.
Platt wrote:
But, IMHO druggies don't contribute much to evolution, unless you consider rock
a contribution.
Dan says:
I am not a druggie. Very rarely do I even drink a beer. Have I done all of
that? Yes, back in the day. Nothing more than pot and beer but, nonetheless, I
have enjoyed more than my share!
And YES, I consider rock music a HUGE contribution!!!
I reply:
Platt should spend more time reading about the "habits" of the artists (musical
or artefact) he admires. Not only rock musicians and hippie artists used drugs.
What about Munch? Hemingway? Wilde? Kafka? Berlioz? Lewis Carroll? Dali?
Charles Dickens? Picasso? Van Gogh? Oh I could go one for a while.
Not much of a contribution, riiiight....
As for rock, I too consider it to be great contribution. And jazz too. And the
blues (if you are ever in Chicago, go to the Kingston Mines!). But Platt is
stuck back in the Victorian outrage at Elvis shaking his hips!
Arlo
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