From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Dec 19 2004 - 18:47:30 GMT
Mark, Sam and all MOQers:
Mark Steven Heyman said:
...... I'm a little skeptical of the "professional" aspect of the
revelation process. Whether it's DMB's recommendation of the web-
omnipresent Wilber or Sam's preferred hierarchy of power and ritual,
or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi taking beneath his wing the Fab Four, there
is to me a slight sense of hucksterism about anyone suggesting an
extremely low ratio of shepherd to sheep, and, little lamb, have I
got the shepherd for YOU!
dmb replies:
I share your skepticism actually and I'm quite surprized at your impression
to the contrary. In fact, last weekend I posted some quotes and thoughts in
the "code of art thread" that should have precluded any such impression.
Lets take a look at the central idea again. Maybe you recall this remarkably
Pirsigian quote from Campbell...
"Let me recall at this point Nietzsche's statements regarding classic and
romantic art. He identified two types or orders of each. There is the
romanticism of true power that shatters contemporary forms to go beyond
these to new forms; and there is, on the other hand, the romanticism that is
unable to achieve form at all, and so smashes and disparages out of
resentment. And with respect to classicism likewise, there is the classicism
that finds an achievement of the recognized forms easy and can play with
them at will, expressing through them its own creative aims in a rich and
vital way; and there is the classicism that clings to form desperately out
of weakness, dry and hard, authoritarian and cold. The POINT I WOULD MAKE -
and which I believe was also Nietzsche's - is that form is the medium, the
vehicle, through which life becomes manifest in its grand style, articulate
and grandiose, and that the mere shattering of form is for human as well as
for animal life a disaster, ritual and decorum being the structuring forms
of all civilization."
dmb continues:
In spelling out the two types or orders here, we see the idea that those who
are unable to achieve form and all and those who cling to form desperately,
"authoritarian and cold" are both of the lower order. And likewise, those
who can "shattter contemporary forms to go beyond" and those who can "play
with them at will" are of the higher order. In terms of your accusation, we
would say that the land of sheperds and sheep belongs to that lower order.
Don't you think?
MSH said:
I don't want to seem overly cynical about this, but it seems like the
paths to guided enlightenment are directly proportional to one's
disposable income, I just don't get the sense that the gurus are
working the ghettos. ...Anyway, I've started this thread so as not to
sidetrack the ongoing valuable discussions of mysticism. Thoughts?
Comments? Attacks or accusations?
dmb says:
Well, this gets at another reason why I'm baffled at your impression that I
am lending any support to Hucksterism or even offering a specific path to
anything. All I can do here is offer ideas. I've heard there are dudes who
can achieve advanced states of consciousness by breathing in through his
right nostril and breathing out through his left nostril - for a few hours.
And I know a guy who has a guru, but I don't recall ever recommending one
for Sam or anyone else here. Nor do I have one myself. I just offer ideas
from books - for free. I don't mind paying for books, although one could
always go the library and read them for free too. But I like to own books. I
like to support my favorite bookstore and the authors themselves, who are
both certainly entitled to be compensated for their efforts - as we all are.
But I thought that meant I was intellectually curious, and not a sheep or a
shepard. I thought I was condemning both leaders and the led, and instead
recommending that we be wolves who wander where we will.
I think you're just angry because your LTC drives like a girl.
Just kidding.
dmb
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