Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

From: Phaedrus Wolff (
Date: Sun Dec 26 2004 - 03:40:18 GMT

  • Next message: MarshaV: "RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    Hi msh,

    To a degree, I would agree with you on this. And, as I write this, I can't
    say that it is a matter of evolving for the churches I am familiar with
    through my discussions with my mom. As a child, I grew up attending mostly
    Pentecostal Holiness and Church of God churches. In these churches, there
    was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

    In my discussions with Mom, I am learning that she has learned that the
    Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are one and all the same. If this belief is
    the norm for these churches, then the Holy Ghost is with you at all times.
    If they are all the same, then this would mean that Jesus and God are with
    you at all times as well, as the only separation comes from the analogies
    used in the Bible to characterize the separate faces of God. Each has their
    purpose to get a point across.

    As my mom has studied, she has learned things she didn't understand before.
    I must wonder if this is a better understanding of something that was
    already believed, or if the church itself has evolved.

    What I am understanding is that in some religions a mystical experience is
    looked upon as not reliable. Our own experiences could be created through
    the devil, so we would have to take our lead from the Fathers of the church.
    In those churches, the Holy Ghost, or 'Holy Spirit' is played down.

    These churches may not be your typical Victorian churches such as the
    Methodist, Baptist, and Catholic churches. I guess it might be more from the
    part of the US you live in, such as the mountains which are near here as
    opposed to the metropolitan city on the other side.

    With that said, I must let it be known that I don't really know what I am
    talking about, as I do not attend a church of any kind, but it would seem to
    me that before we make generalizations about Christianity, then we would
    need to be knowledgeable of all Western Christian beliefs -- "Don't throw
    the baby out with the bath water."

    My studies in theology would confirm this though, as the Catholic church
    offers the highest intellectual material, and this is where my studies have
    been limited.

    So generally speaking, I would say you hit it pretty much on the nail-head.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Mark Steven Heyman" <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 9:20 PM
    Subject: Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

    > Hi all,
    > I'd like to simplify the raging debate between Sam and DMB, for my
    > own sanity and peace of mind, if nothing else. I think the essence
    > of their disagreement can be examined in terms of what each claims is
    > revealed through a mystical experience.
    > For DMB, a mystical experience reveals that god exists, and we,
    > everything, every rock root and sentient, are pure god, through and
    > through. We, each and everyone of us, are complete and equal in our
    > godliness.
    > I think Sam is saying that a mystical experience reveals that there
    > is a God, and that we are part of it, but not all of it. There is
    > something external to us that is God as All. And (taking a chance
    > here) Sam might be suggesting that our complete realization of GOD
    > (our becoming one with God) isn't possible through any "earthly"
    > mystical revelation, but only after bodily death.
    > Now. Isn't this just the east/west religious split on the nature of
    > God?
    > As usual, all thoughtful comments will be appreciated.
    > Best,
    > Mark Steven Heyman (msh)
    > --
    > InfoPro Consulting - The Professional Information Processors
    > Custom Software Solutions for Windows, PDAs, and the Web Since 1983
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