RE: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?

From: David Buchanan (
Date: Mon Dec 27 2004 - 01:57:02 GMT

  • Next message: Phaedrus Wolff: "Re: MD Is the MoQ still in the Kantosphere?"

    Sam, Chin and all MOQers:

    Chin said:
    I simply do not see mysticism limited by religion or philosophy, as
    mysticism denies any religious or philosophical guidelines, and most
    certainly is not limited to any cultural/religious traditions.

    dmb says:
    OK. But let's not forget that philosophical mysticism and the mystical
    reality itself are two different things entirely. The former is a body of
    static intellectual descriptions, its a philosophy. As such it most
    certainly is limited by definitions, particular ideas that interrelate in a
    coherent way and is otherwise limited and constrained by all sorts of
    standards. But maybe "limited" is the wrong word. Maybe we should just say
    that philosophical mysticism, like all philsophies, takes shape by way of
    distinctions and lines and particular idea and that the form gives us a new
    kind of freedom to approach those ineffable realities. AS I tried to point
    out in the "code of art thread", form is freedom and higher forms mean more

    Chin said:
    The only limitations I see, as I have offered previously, to a mystic
    experience, is that of culture/religion denial.

    dmb replies:
    Right. How does Pirsig put it? Dynamic Quality is everywhere but some
    cultures filter it out. Like ours.

    Chin said:
    A degenerate is just as capable of a mystic experience as a theologian or
    philosopher, and possibly more so.(IMHO)

    dmb says:
    Yea, I suppose anyone is capable. It seems pretty clear that one can
    increase the chances by keeping bad things like degeneracy and theology at
    bay, but I don't see any reason to exclude anyone outright. I think alot of
    degenerate behavior is motivated by a desire for DQ, but it is so badly
    understood in our culture that no one seems capable of offering what they
    want in a more constructive way. When scientific materialism seems so empty
    and nihilistic and religion seems so unbelievable, what's is a seeker to do?
    Someone defined the "new age movement" as a process of discarding childish
    beliefs like the virgin birth and the resurrection and replacing them with
    even more ridiculous beliefs from an even more obsolete religion in an even
    more reactionary way. I'm sympathetic because I think there is a genuine
    spiritual sickness in the world and its only natural that people should go
    looking for relief.

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