From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Dec 27 2004 - 01:57:02 GMT
Sam, Chin and all MOQers:
Chin said:
I simply do not see mysticism limited by religion or philosophy, as
mysticism denies any religious or philosophical guidelines, and most
certainly is not limited to any cultural/religious traditions.
dmb says:
OK. But let's not forget that philosophical mysticism and the mystical
reality itself are two different things entirely. The former is a body of
static intellectual descriptions, its a philosophy. As such it most
certainly is limited by definitions, particular ideas that interrelate in a
coherent way and is otherwise limited and constrained by all sorts of
standards. But maybe "limited" is the wrong word. Maybe we should just say
that philosophical mysticism, like all philsophies, takes shape by way of
distinctions and lines and particular idea and that the form gives us a new
kind of freedom to approach those ineffable realities. AS I tried to point
out in the "code of art thread", form is freedom and higher forms mean more
freedom.
Chin said:
The only limitations I see, as I have offered previously, to a mystic
experience, is that of culture/religion denial.
dmb replies:
Right. How does Pirsig put it? Dynamic Quality is everywhere but some
cultures filter it out. Like ours.
Chin said:
A degenerate is just as capable of a mystic experience as a theologian or
philosopher, and possibly more so.(IMHO)
dmb says:
Yea, I suppose anyone is capable. It seems pretty clear that one can
increase the chances by keeping bad things like degeneracy and theology at
bay, but I don't see any reason to exclude anyone outright. I think alot of
degenerate behavior is motivated by a desire for DQ, but it is so badly
understood in our culture that no one seems capable of offering what they
want in a more constructive way. When scientific materialism seems so empty
and nihilistic and religion seems so unbelievable, what's is a seeker to do?
Someone defined the "new age movement" as a process of discarding childish
beliefs like the virgin birth and the resurrection and replacing them with
even more ridiculous beliefs from an even more obsolete religion in an even
more reactionary way. I'm sympathetic because I think there is a genuine
spiritual sickness in the world and its only natural that people should go
looking for relief.
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