Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

From: Ian Glendinning (ian@psybertron.org)
Date: Mon Jan 10 2005 - 17:56:59 GMT

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    Platt ...

    Ad hominem attacks ???
    This mail today ""As ususal DMB has ... all wrong"
    Other mail today "The way DMB describes .... etc"
    Pot & kettle perhaps ... ?
    Truce - however, since you're clearly in playful mood ...

    Perhaps I could glean a clue or two about inuition and mysticism.
    I still genuinely feel mysticism is just a pejorative label for something
    fairly straightforward.

    I'm happy with the idea of "pre-cognitive" knowledge ("affective" no ?)
    Something believed, felt, "known" ahead of conceptualising any rational or
    empirical perceptual inputs.
    Is this stuff "not yet rationally explained" and/or "not yet experienced
    through the 5 external senses" all people mean by mysticism ?

    Ian
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
    Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 2:05 PM
    Subject: Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101

    > Hi Chin, DMB, All:
    >
    > > Phaedrus Wolff asked:
    > > If intuition is not DQ, then what is it?
    > >
    > > dmb replies:
    > > Instinct. A hunch. A feeling. Its a vague word and should be avoided by
    > > philosophers for that reason, especially if we are trying to distinguish
    > > instincts and feelings from a mystical experience.
    > >
    > > Wolff) That'll do as well as Chin, thanks for the new nickname. I guess
    it
    > > is possible we could reduce ourselves to nonintellectual animals. Point
    > > well taken.
    >
    > Point well made, Chin. It looks more and more like mystic experience is
    > like animal experience, i.e., without concepts. But, as usual, DMB has the
    > meaning of "intuition" all wrong. From Merriam-Webster:
    >
    > 1 : quick and ready insight
    > 2 a : immediate apprehension or cognition b : knowledge or conviction
    > gained by intuition c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct
    > knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference
    >
    > Intuition is knowledge, cognition without thought, or as I've said, what
    > we know before we know anything else.
    >
    > Furthermore, does it strike anyone else as ironic to say the least that it
    > seems to the require an outpouring of verbiage to describe something that
    > it's claimed can't be verbalized, or that those who rail against reason
    > and logic in favor of a mystic view of reality structure their arguments
    > solely on reason and logic?
    >
    > Oh well. The ongoing debate about the nature of mysticism provides much
    > entertainment. As Pirsig notes, "pure fun" and Dynamic Quality go
    > together.
    >
    > Platt
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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