Re: MD Logic, Analogy, Metaphor

From: Ron Winchester (phaedruswolff@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Jan 21 2005 - 23:45:29 GMT

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    Joe;
    Tying analogy to quality describes: "I experience dynamic quality." Quality
    is experienced and undefined.

    I like Mark Maxwell's The Edge of Chaos on moq.org as 'the sweet spot' of
    artistic analogy. Words as sq patterns reflect a connection and tension to
    dq from which they are latched. With training the 'tension' in the patterns
    is explored and manifested.

    Hi Joe,

    I say very good.

    What you are describing is Quality in its full experience. To use billiards,
    you practice the game, learn the connection of the balls to the cue ball to
    the cue to the table and to the opponent. Once you have mastered that static
    Quality of the game, you are then capable of experiencing DQ in your game.
    You are no longer concerned with the connection of the balls, cue, table, or
    opponent. You them become aware of the motion of your stroke. Without
    thought, you let the cue slide to that position on the ball that will sink
    the shot, and leave the cue ball where you want it for the next shot. Prior
    to the thought, prior to the mechanics of the game, there is that split
    second when you make a seemingly unconscious decision before thought, and
    before the geometrics. For this split second, you lose all consciousness of
    the components that make up the game, and you and the cue become one. You
    know before you strike the ball what the ball is going to do. This is the DQ
    experience in the game. You have mastered the static patterns, and nothing
    but DQ matters. This DQ latches to the static patterns, including your small
    self that is nothing but a static pattern that has been built up as you go.

    I would think the same would hold true in philosophy. You are exposed to
    philosophy, but more so to science, culture and nature. Science, culture,
    and nature all communicate with your philosophy on a constant, circular
    motion to where you are no longer concerned with science, culture, nature,
    and philosophy; everything becomes art. The circular communication of all
    things work their way through you without conscious decision making, but as
    you suggest mystic communication of which you become a part of; a
    non-resistant part of. You lose your small self, and everything you have
    learned, or think you have learned, and just join the flow of the universe.

    Maybe you just no longer question Quality, but more realize it is the
    questioning of Quality that denies the answers you search for; the answers
    you always had, but were insecure of.

    What you think?

    Wolff

    >From: "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@sbcglobal.net>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >Subject: Re: MD Logic, Analogy, Metaphor
    >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:06:03 -0800
    >
    >On 20 January 2004 3:46 PM Chin writes to Joe,
    >
    >[Joe] IMO analogues for evolution are gravity (inorganic), purpose
    >(organic), existence (social order), creation (intellectual, unfinished
    >s/o).
    >
    >[Joe] How an evolutionary analogy is pertinent from the inorganic order is
    >not a static description. Timeless 'operations' (evolution is in time, but
    >the analogy is timeless) sustain the analogy of dynamic/static quality. IMO
    >'description' is a word of time, and does not capture the word 'intellect'.
    >
    >[Chin] May I ask, when you are speaking in terms of analogy, are you
    >speaking in a philosophical sense as to how philosophies are related? - or
    >have you been
    >studying Socrates maybe(?) - or maybe relating more to artistic analogy and
    >the idea that concepts cannot be fully understood by words?
    >
    >[Chin] How would you tie this Analogy to Quality?
    >
    >Hi Chin and all,
    >
    >Philosophies are analogous. This is a meaningful sentence.
    >
    >I read George Gurdjieff's All and Everything. He used a phrase "The
    >instinctive sensing of reality!" which I thought make sense. He saw three
    >forces, mind, heart, and body emerging from matter by a special act. Each
    >of these were also divided into three. The forces of the body were named
    >instinct, moving, sex. I then read Pirsig's books. It seemed to me they had
    >similar formulations of three in one.
    >
    >I have stopped using the sentence 'The instinctive sensing of reality'
    >since it seems to imply an 'instinctive organ' which we use, rather than
    >merely stating 'I sense reality'. I use mystical experience and analogy to
    >describe how I sense reality. I like the word 'mystic' which is based on
    >the Greek word 'mystes' which means 'an initiate'.
    >
    >I keep in mind that I cannot hit a 95 mph fastball, and others have trained
    >themselves to be able. History is full of special training to do things,
    >e.g. Olympics, monasteries, schools. I accept I can learn, and I can
    >change. IMO the mystical and its expression, analogy, are the mechanisms.
    >
    >Tying analogy to quality describes: "I experience dynamic quality." Quality
    >is experienced and undefined.
    >
    >I like Mark Maxwell's The Edge of Chaos on moq.org as 'the sweet spot' of
    >artistic analogy. Words as sq patterns reflect a connection and tension to
    >dq from which they are latched. With training the 'tension' in the patterns
    >is explored and manifested.
    >
    >Joe
    >
    >----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Winchester"
    ><phaedruswolff@hotmail.com>
    >To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    >Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:27 PM
    >Subject: Re: MD Logic, Analogy, Metaphor
    >
    >
    >>Joe;
    >>If there is a process in my thoughts about analogy, evolution, I would not
    >>use the word 'description' as key.
    >>
    >>IMO analogues for evolution are gravity (inorganic), purpose (organic),
    >>existence (social order), creation (intellectual, unfinished s/o).
    >>
    >>How an evolutionary analogy is pertinent from the inorganic order is not a
    >>static description. Timeless 'operations' (evolution is in time, but the
    >>analogy is timeless) sustain the analogy of dynamic/static quality. IMO
    >>'description' is a word of time, and does not capture the word
    >>'intellect'.
    >>
    >>Wolff;
    >>Very good.
    >>
    >>May I ask, when you are speaking in terms of analogy, are you speaking in
    >>a philosophical sense as to how philosophies are related? - or have you
    >>been studying Socrates maybe(?) - or maybe relating more to artistic
    >>analogy and the idea that concepts cannot be fully understood by words?
    >>
    >>How would you tie this Analogy to Quality?
    >>
    >>Chin
    >
    >
    >
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