From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Sun Feb 20 2005 - 01:28:11 GMT
Scott, Ron and all MOQers:
First, a very brief reminder of one particular exchange...
Scott said to Ron:
I also question your characterization of "Christian Mystical Experience" as
if it were all visions. Eckhart, the author of the Cloud of Unknowing, and
the contemporary mystic Bernadette Roberts are all counter-examples.
Ron Winchester said:
Bernadette Roberts does not stick to the 'Christian' mystical experience. If
you are speaking in terms of Christianity evolving, I do believe it will,
but hasn't yet to accept this idea of 'No-Self'. Would you not agree?
dmb chimes in:
The whole purpose of Bernadette Roberts' work is to fill in Christianity's
mysticism gap. If she is an exception, she is most certainly an exception
that proves the rule. She complains that "from the point of view of the
Church", there is no such thing as the no-self event. She complains that
descriptions this experience, which she knows first hand, are rarely found
in Christian literature and says the few that can be found are incomplete.
This is my complaint too. As I've said, to the extent that the Church fails
to lead its followers toward such a goal it has failed as a Church. And to
the extent they prevent of forestall such an experience, they are evil. I'm
sure sweet Bernadette wouldn't put it so harshly, but her work certainly
seems to be centered around correcting this same problem. In her book called
"THE EXPERIENCE OF NO-SELF" she writes,
"The whole problem is that until we come upon this final event we do not
know it is missing from the literature; thus we have no way of knowing what,
specifically, to look for. In other words, until we know first hand or by
experience exactly what to look for, we are not is a postion to judge
whether or not this event is in the literature. This does not mean that
millions of people have not come upon the no-self event, indeed, sooner or
later everyone will do so. All it means is that an accurate, distinguishable
or clarifying account is not in the literature. The challenge of providing
such an account is what my writing is all about. ...It may be that for
centuries our various censors have eliminated any event they did not
understand or which they thought too upsetting to their clientele."
She became convinced that some church figures were familiar with the
mystical experience, but that they dare not let it be known...
"To journey beyond the self means leaving behind our relative notions,..
going beyond our usual frames of reference and encountering areas of
theologcial sensitivity which, alone, would necessitate such account
remaining unrecorded. I have always been of the opinion that John of the
Cross, with the Spanish Inquisition breathing down his neck, failed to give
us the full story. We know that his writings were left incomplete."
What's my point? I'm fairly well convinced by now that "The cloud of
unknowing" is somthing Scott knows all too well. Not only does it describe
the feeling I get from reading his posts, its also apparently the name of
his bong. As Tom Hulce said to Donald Sutherland in Animal House, "Wow. Can
I buy some pot from you?"
Thanks,
dmb
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