From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Feb 21 2005 - 02:53:03 GMT
Hello DMB,
I am aware of your frustrations with Pirsig criticisms but let me assure you
that when somebody is criticizing a point Pirsig has made they also tend to
exprience frustration with the Pirsig fundamentalism goggles some people
tend to where at times. When somebody here expresses a disagreement there
is a knee-jerk response (ha that choice of words is just for you Ron) - that
a DISAGREEMENT = misunderstanding.
[David Buchanan]
I like to believe that I can see the difference.
You just listed a long list of how Pirsig is consistent. I didn't
understand how consistency was the issue-----it is a issue if the assumption
that a disagreement is due to a misunderstanding of his works but if you
think you understand his position and that it is consistent but that you
just disagree with it then your list of consistent statements is pointless.
[David Buchanan]
But here it look like you can't see the difference. The issue here is not
whether or not Scott agrees with the MOQ. It is about whether or not Scott
understands it. Or at least that's my view and that's what I tried to
demonstrate in that post. You may recall that I included several examples of
Scott asserting his take on what Pirsig thinks. And each time I tried to
show how he was reading the MOQ through SOM assumptions, the same SOM
assumptions that Pirsig has been so consistent in attacking. Ant was making
the same case to some extent and so those clips were included too. To read
Pirsig this way is not to disagree with Pirsig, but to misunderstand him.
Scott is insisting that Pirsig holds certain views that he disagrees with,
but when we look we find that Pirsig does not hold these views. I'm trying
to show how it is that Scott is disagreeing with assertions that Pirsig does
not make. See? Scott often has interpreted Pirsig's statements to mean the
very opposite of what they are supposed to mean. That's a misunderstanding.
So it is frustrating when you repeatedly explain what somebody thinks they
already understand but just DISAGREE with.
I consider myself a Pirsig supporter but I disagree with him about
particular points in his philosophy. I am really frustrated that when I do
disagree with Pirsig about a point it is automatically assumed that it is
because I don't REALLY understand what he is saying.
For a second can you consider the mere possibility that a person understands
what Pirsig says and disagrees with it.
dmb says:
Sure. Can you imagine the possibility that a person can misunderstand? I've
done it many, many times and fully expect to misunderstand more things in
the future. As far as I know, personal agreement or disagreement with Pirsig
hasn't really been on the table. One of the biggest parts of my frustration
is that we have not yet been able, as a group, to do anything with the MOQ
because there is so much confusion about what it actually is. There are a
million details to fill in and flesh out, but instead we are here trying to
get people to grasp the most basic ideas. It feels like a have a brand new
sporty little BMW convertable but have never so much as taken it out of the
driveway - for several years.
Ant: However, I can see why he (and Marsha) are frustrated with your recent
posts because you are tending to distort the MOQ rather than clarifying or
adding to it.
We are here to clarify and add to the MOQ but I think that if critiquing of
his work is not welcomed and every disagreement is assumed to be a
misunderstanding and labeled a distortion we are doing a disservice to his
work and philosophy.
dmb says:
Like I said, I've tried to show the nature of Scott's misunderstanding. I
haven't just labeled it or assumed it. Would you take a look again and tell
me if you don't see that effort?
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