Re: MD The Carousel of Faux Philosophy

From: Mark Steven Heyman (
Date: Tue May 24 2005 - 17:58:06 BST

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    The "quotes" were not attributed to anyone, but were clearly marked
    as examples of a very common type of exchange, as any careful reader
    will see for himself.

    TFP's response is an irrelevant diversion to the issue at hand,
    another variation of the Platteral Shift. Plenty of real quotes have
    been presented, clearly establishing unsupported slander of Chomsky,
    Moyers, Zinn, and Amnesty International.

    Until those statements are retracted or defended with evidence and
    argument, there will be no escape from the Carousel of Faux

    Mark Steven Heyman (msh)

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    On 24 May 2005 at 10:35, Platt Holden wrote:
    MSH writes:
    Another variation of the Shift is to repeatedly ridicule the ideas
    of another and then, when asked for evidence, say "This is a forum
    dedicated to the work of Robert Pirsig.  What does this have to do
    with Pirsig?" For example:
    "Howard Zinn is a Marxist and I don't believe anything he says."
    "What evidence do you have that Zinn is a Marxist?" "This forum is
    about Robert Pirsig, not Howard Zinn."
    "I don't believe any reports issued by anti-American organizations
    like Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch." "What makes you
    think they are anti-American? "What does this have to do with the
    Metaphysics of Quality?"
    TFP asked:. 
    Speaking of evidence, please specify the source, including the
    context, for these exact quotes. Not that I deny them. 
    msh May 23, 2005:
    The quotes above were from memory, but they do not differ much from
    TFP's actual words, referenced below:
    Just as I suspected. The quotes MSH quoted were not quotes at all.
    There's an intellectual level standard that statements surrounded by
    quotation marks mean that the person referenced said or wrote the
    exact words that were inside the marks. When an author violates this
    standard,  his credibility rightly suffers.
    So now, having seen MSH's "evidence," I deny those quotes, although
    the words he believed he was at liberty to put in my mouth are
    reasonable facsimiles of my views.  But I do not deny or retract one
    word that I wrote about about the leftist Bill Moyers and the
    anarchist Noam Chomsky. You can quote me on that. :-)
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